Converting a 348 into a 409

['59Imp]

So I am looking into this, and I am wondering if it is possible to convert a 348 into a 409?
So I already have a 348 engine (it is what is in the car currently), but being the gearhead that I am, I would like to give it more power, hop it up, and convert it into a 409.
I would also like to give it a 4 speed manual transmission. And I believe that this car was originally a manual transmission as I also have the original clutch assembly and all the manual transmission stuff as it came with the car when I bought it. I believe it was a floor shift too, as it would explain the hole in the floor that has been patched. I also believe that I have the original floor shift steering column somewhere here, as the steering column is what looks to be one of those "ididit" chrome steering columns and its also a automatic column shift steering column.

So again, what I would like to do to this car is convert the 348 into a 409 and give her a 4 speed.

So is it possible to convert a 348 into a 409?
If so, what all do I need to change? Also, where do I find the necessary parts to do so?

 

[61BUBBLE348]

Simple answer is yes, you will need to increase stroke rather than bore.

If you search the old threads there are many that go through this process.

 

[tripower]

366, 396, or 427 BBC crank is 3.76 stroke. Stock bore on 348 is 4.125
So if you bore your 348 .040 for a total bore of 4.165 and use the 3.76 stroke you have 409ci.
4.165 bore X 4.165 bore X 3.76 stroke X 6.2832=409ci
http://www.348-409.com/specs.html
http://www.348-409.com/forum/threads/how-to-build-a-348.9073/

 

['59Imp]

366, 396, or 427 BBC crank is 3.76 stroke. Stock bore on 348 is 4.125
So if you bore your 348 .040 for a total bore of 4.165 and use the 3.76 stroke you have 409ci.
4.165 bore X 4.165 bore X 3.76 stroke X 6.2832=409ci
http://www.348-409.com/specs.html
http://www.348-409.com/forum/threads/how-to-build-a-348.9073/

Wow, that's all I have to do to make the 348 into a 409? Interesting. I was under the impression that I had to change a whole bunch of 348 stuff out with 409 stuff, like the crank, camshaft, heads, that sort of thing. But I'm very happy to learn that I don't have to change all that stuff out. Saves a lot of money too that I won't have to change all that stuff out.
Thank you very much Dan.

 

[Don Jacks]

What Tripower is saying is that's how you arrive at 409 inches from a 348 block[it's actually cheaper to use a 4 in. stroker kit and build a 430
+cu.in.engine],Jackie.Now to make the power of a 409 WILL require much better cam,heads,intake,carb,and exhaust.

 

[Phil Reed]

Yes...you will have to change the cam, heads, exhaust manifolds and intake and carb to get the power out of your new engine. Keep the 348 block and get all 409 parts to go with it.
If you don't...you will be real disappoint in the "performance" of your new engine.

 

['59Imp]

Oh. Here I was thinking I could have a 409 with only doing what Dan said.
So I have to change what Dan said, and also cam, heads, intake, carb, and exhaust manifolds.

Alright, I am a bit confused on one thing; what is exhaust manifolds? Do you mean headers?

I was already planning on replacing the cam, intake manifold, and carburetor. And also putting headers on it.
The cam: its a stock cam in there now.
Intake manifold: that is stock too, and painted orange. I dislike orange motors...
Carburetor: that is stock as well. Its a Rochester, I believe its called the Quadrajet. And its tiny. I think its only a 500.

 

[Don Jacks]

Exhaust manifolds are those heavy,restrictive lumps of cast iron between the heads and the exhaust pipes.Yes headers are much better.The Quadrajet didn't appear until 66,your Rochester is more than likely the 4gc series,and yes it's quite small.When you decide on the direction of your engine build,and the intended use for your car,let us know and we can help you pick the right cam.Bigger isn't usually better for a street car.The stock cam is only good to use as a door prop.

 

['59Imp]

Yeah, I think headers are much better too. Pretty much all the cars around here have headers on them.
I have pretty much already decided in the direction of the build- I want the car to be a street cruiser and also a bit of a hot rod too. So a kind of mild cam, but with enough lopedy-lope to make the car sound like she has some power.

 

[models916]

Change everything but the block.

 

[303Radar]

Change everything but the block.

I think you can keep the sheet metal as well. But with respect to internals and other expensive parts, yep, you'll need a plan to upgrade them. Especially if you want much more power.

My own build is a 431. And while I'm going to have more power on tap than I should really use, a 348 block is a good platform for almost anything you want to do.

A good starting point might be identify either a power goal (high 300's/low 400's hp is a solid range, but 600+ is possible) or a theme (daily driver, fun cruiser, a sleeper, a ten second monster, or pro-touring). From there, we'll have a lot more ideas and help than you may want to hear. The fun part should be how you make it your own, the advice you listen to or ignore, is all up to you.

Good luck and we can't wait to see what you do!

 

['59Imp]

Sheet metal? What is that concerning engine parts? I know what sheet metal is; it's the stuff on the body of the car, fenders etc. But I do not know what sheet more metal is concerning engines... So do you mind clarifying that for me, please?

Yes, I do want a lot more power. So I do now plan to upgrade all of that stuff.
So what is it all; do I change out everything all except the engine block?

I don't know how much horsepower I will get; it all depends on the final result when the build is finished, and even then is just a guess with how much exact horsepower you have...

Alright the theme, that's an easier question to answer.
I want the car to be a fun cruiser car. Where I have a good amount of horsepower, but still keeping the car street legal. I don't want a dragstrip racing car either. Street cruiser, yes.
What I want is just a real fun street cruiser, with still a good amount of horsepower too. Enough horsepower where the car can give the competition a good run for their money and maybe even beat them.

So to give a better idea with what the '59 here will be horsepower wise and what cars the '59 has a chance of beating in a street car race...
So one of my own cars is going to be the competition against the '59 as well when my car and the '59 is finished with getting a 409.

So this is where the Chevy fans around here find out that I am not 100% a Chevy person...
So I am also a Mopar person too along with being a Chevy person.
Only I like the early Mopars, like the finned '50s Mopars. Yes, the cars I am talking about here is Christine-type cars. I am very much into these type of cars.
So anyhow, I will be owning a '58 Plymouth in the very near future. Yes, a Christine. My plans for the car is to give her a Mopar big block mild 440. What I mean by a mild 440 is that I won't be hopping up the 440 all that much. And no, it is definitely not the original motor in this car. '58 Plymouth engine options were either a flathead 6 cylinder or a V8 318 small block.

And my dad thinks that the '59 when she has a 409 will beat my 440. My '58 Plymouth weighs 4,000 pounds and with a mild 440 going up against the lighter weight '59 with a hopped up 409, I think it will be a very close race. So I will be racing my 440 against my dad driving the 409.

So I hope this helped with trying to describe with what I want the 409 to be. And I sure hope that I didn't anger any 100% Chevy fans around here with me saying that I am a Mopar person as well as a Chevy person.

 

[LMBRJQ 60]

Sheet metal? What is that concerning engine parts? I know what sheet metal is; it's the stuff on the body of the car, fenders etc. But I do not know what sheet more metal is concerning engines... So do you mind clarifying that for me, please?

Yes, I do want a lot more power. So I do now plan to upgrade all of that stuff.
So what is it all; do I change out everything all except the engine block?

I don't know how much horsepower I will get; it all depends on the final result when the build is finished, and even then is just a guess with how much exact horsepower you have...

Alright the theme, that's an easier question to answer.
I want the car to be a fun cruiser car. Where I have a good amount of horsepower, but still keeping the car street legal. I don't want a dragstrip racing car either. Street cruiser, yes.
What I want is just a real fun street cruiser, with still a good amount of horsepower too. Enough horsepower where the car can give the competition a good run for their money and maybe even beat them.

So to give a better idea with what the '59 here will be horsepower wise and what cars the '59 has a chance of beating in a street car race...
So one of my own cars is going to be the competition against the '59 as well when my car and the '59 is finished with getting a 409.

So this is where the Chevy fans around here find out that I am not 100% a Chevy person...
So I am also a Mopar person too along with being a Chevy person.
Only I like the early Mopars, like the finned '50s Mopars. Yes, the cars I am talking about here is Christine-type cars. I am very much into these type of cars.
So anyhow, I will be owning a '58 Plymouth in the very near future. Yes, a Christine. My plans for the car is to give her a Mopar big block mild 440. What I mean by a mild 440 is that I won't be hopping up the 440 all that much. And no, it is definitely not the original motor in this car. '58 Plymouth engine options were either a flathead 6 cylinder or a V8 318 small block.

And my dad thinks that the '59 when she has a 409 will beat my 440. My '58 Plymouth weighs 4,000 pounds and with a mild 440 going up against the lighter weight '59 with a hopped up 409, I think it will be a very close race. So I will be racing my 440 against my dad driving the 409.

So I hope this helped with trying to describe with what I want the 409 to be. And I sure hope that I didn't anger any 100% Chevy fans around here with me saying that I am a Mopar person as well as a Chevy person.

Hi Jackie.

All people want to know is around the intended use and performance requirements. I.e do you hi way cruise or street light race. Gearing will also have a lot to do with the feel of performance. Horsepower is not everything in heavy cars and torque can be more fun.
Others will chime in with ideas and they are way more experienced than I at this.

Tripower (Dan) has a haul ass 61 belair that is a 348 block. 396 or 427 crank and stroker pistons. His is 417 cubes I think and it put on a good show.
Worth talking to Dan re this combo.

As far as sheet metal goes the guys mean sump, rocker covers etc. Tin stuff. Will interchange.

Regards

Steve

 

['59Imp]

Hi Steve.
I was planning on doing highway cruising, and also street driving/light racing.
About the rear end gearing; I am a bit confused with what rear end gears this car has. The rear end I believe is a 3rd member one. Someone told me that there will be a tag on it that says the gearing, but I never found it.

Oh, that's what sheet metal means in engines. Thanks for clarifying that up for me Steve.
I was planning on replacing the valve covers, and some other engine covers already. Why is because I don't care for the look of ALL orange painted engines. This car has a 348 that is 100% orange in color. And I mean everything. I don't have any pictures on the camera of the engine; if I did I would post the pictures so you could see exactly what I am talking about of this car having an all orange motor. I will take some photos here soon though.
I care more for the look of shiny chrome engines. Like I plan on replacing the orange valve covers with those nice 348/409 Edelbrock chrome finned valve covers.

 

[Don Jacks]

If you're not absolutly set on 409 cu.in.,you could use a 409 crank and that with a .030 overbore will net you a 380 incher that can easily be built into a fun,powerful little engine.The stock stroke 348 can be drasticly improved as well,but in that heavy car you need torque in the 2,000 up range.The extra stroke will be your friend.

 

['59Imp]

If you're not absolutly set on 409 cu.in.,you could use a 409 crank and that with a .030 overbore will net you a 380 incher that can easily be built into a fun,powerful little engine.The stock stroke 348 can be drasticly improved as well,but in that heavy car you need torque in the 2,000 up range.The extra stroke will be your friend.

No, I am set on going all the way 409. I want the car to have a 409, not a 348.
I will be pulling the motor when doing this project; so the car won't be running for quite a while and when I have the motor out, I feel that it would be best to go all 409 now and not decide later to go all 409 and end up having to do this project over again.
I hope that made sense...

 

[Don Jacks]

Oh yeah,Jackie.Spend once,cry once.Keep an eye out for a 409 truck engine,they're cheaper and can make great power.

 

['59Imp]

Oh yeah,Jackie.Spend once,cry once.Keep an eye out for a 409 truck engine,they're cheaper and can make great power.

I don't need a 409 truck engine.
I already have the 348 engine block, as that is the motor that is in the car currently. And it runs well, has no issues whatsoever. But I just want to hop it up a good deal and make her run even better added horsepower, so that is why I am converting the motor all the way to a 409. I am using the same engine block.

Thanks for the advice though of a 409 truck engine; just my answer is simply no thanks because of what I have just pointed out above.

 

[LMBRJQ 60]

Hi Jackie.
In order to make your 348 block a 409 by boring and stroking it and using a 409 crank may be impossible. The wall thickness on the cylinders will more than likely not take that much over bore.
This being the case you only other option is to stroke the engine to get as close to 409 cubes as possible. The issue is that you still have a 348 block it just happens to be larger in capacity and closer to 409 than 348.
This way may be more expensive than what others have suggested above by getting a truck 409 block. They are only advising what is a proven formula and least expensive.
The way I see it is keep 348 block and get what you can out of it by stroking but it is a 348 block (same as what I am doing. 409 crank in a 348 block =380) or go 409 engine.

With the 348 block the 409 cubes is only an arbitrary figure not an engine.

Again this is my opinion and mine only.
If you ask on here you will get the answers but they may not be what you were looking for.

Regards

Steve

 

[models916]

348 pan (sheet metal) hits the 409 and longer stroke crank and holds much less oil.