Swapping in an M22 in place of a TH350

[chevymusclecars]

Bob

I was just looking at your parts list and don't see a pilot bushing on the list. I'm also not sure what starter you have but you need a steel nose starter to fit the bellhousing. If you try to use the aluminum nose starter you will end up damaging the bellhousing.

Bill

 

[bobs409]

Thanks Cecil. I learn something new around here everyday!

Bill, the pilot bushing is still in my crank but I also got a new one with the clutch set too.

While were on that subject, how the heck do you get an old one out? Or should I just leave it and use that one?

I'll have to check the starter nose. I'm not sure what it's made of. :? I do know that a piece is broken off where one of the bolts goes through. :

Thanks for all the input, it's making this job alot easier!

 

[chevymusclecars]

Bob

If the pilot bushing fits with some clearance on a metal input shaft there is no reason you can't use the old one. It is normally difficult to get a puller of any type to work but if you drill a hole or two and then take a nice sharp chisel it isn't that hard to split the old one to get it out.

The starter should be the one that fits your Chevelle with a 396 375HP or a 427 high performance. The bolts will be straight across, this is the same starter that would have originally been used in combination with a 621 bellhousing and 168 tooth flywheel. I bought one of these starters a couple of weeks ago at the local Carquest for about $45.

Bill

 

[Ronnie Russell]

Bob, There is an old trick you could try on the old pilot bushing. Pack the inside of the old bushing with wheel bearing grease, then insert an old trans. input shaft and tap with hammer. Many times the bushing will come right out. If not, then,,,, what Bill said.

 

[bobs409]

I'll give that a try Ronnie. I think I recall hearing about that trick in the past. I never had the opportunity to try it until now. (I was blessed with 7 automatics out of 8 vehicles!)

 

[skipxt4]

Bob: If you decide to not, use the original pilot bushing, make sure the tranny's input shaft will fit through the bushing, after you drive the new one in. If you use a brass bushing, sometimes they get distorted, a little bit when you drive them in. Just enough to stop the input shaft, from going straight through.:takethatAlso, don't forget to put a finger tip blob of grease, in the bushing, and crank cavity.

 

[bobs409]

I finally got that starter off. It's a cast iron nose but the bolts are staggered. Do I still need the one with bolts straight across? Now that I think of it, I forgot to see if the 409 has holes for either starter. Anyone know?:?

Bob

If the pilot bushing fits with some clearance on a metal input shaft there is no reason you can't use the old one. It is normally difficult to get a puller of any type to work but if you drill a hole or two and then take a nice sharp chisel it isn't that hard to split the old one to get it out.

The starter should be the one that fits your Chevelle with a 396 375HP or a 427 high performance. The bolts will be straight across, this is the same starter that would have originally been used in combination with a 621 bellhousing and 168 tooth flywheel. I bought one of these starters a couple of weeks ago at the local Carquest for about $45.

Bill

 

[bobs409]

I just checked autozone website and they list the same part number for a starter on both the 1966 Chevelle w/396 and a 1963 Impala w/409.

 

[chevymusclecars]

Bob

The cast iron starter nose can have staggered bolts and I would guess the one you have will work. What is the part number I have a Delco book on starters?

Bill

 

[bobs409]

Bill, I bought this starter back in 1994 from a local parts store. I wrote all the numbers down when I first got it so here they are:

3 TK 387
1108769 of 13


The bad thing is one of the bolt hole pieces is broken off so I can't really tighten that one.

 

[chevymusclecars]

Bob

I have two Delco books and of course that one doesn't show up but I still would say it appears the one you have will work fine. The aluminum nose starters always hit the bellhousings that fit the 168 tooth flywheel and don't slip in easily, just make sure that yours slides in easily and you should be fine.

I missed the part about the broken bolt hole. If the bolt hole is broken I would buy a new starter. The one I just bought at Carquest cost $45 plus a $15 core charge so it wouldn't be worth the chance of breaking a bellhousing or damaging a flywheel.

Bill

 

[bobs409]

Thanks for the help Bill. I think I will get a new one. I never "skimp" when it comes to the 409!


Bob

 

[Impalaguru]

Bob,
It looks like you are using a "621" style bell housing. You will need the 63-65 409 powerglide starter. You will get the BBC starter with the two holes that are staggered. It will work. I've ran this set up before. You would only need the 4-speed 409 starter if you had a bellhousing that used a starter that bolted to it like the 63 and earlier 409s used. You'll need the 168 tooth flywheel.
Ross

 

[Skip FIx]

I was using my old 409 starter for my SBC with the scattershield as I found out the aluminum nose wouldn't fit it. Well after 40 years it crapped out. O reilley did have one with the cast iron nos that fit I can look at the # when I get home. Pretty sure it was staggered bolt holes.

FWIW when I swapped a 4 speed in the Camaro from a TH350 all I had to do was swap the right tranny yoke on it. The 4 speed used a TH400 spline count.

Cool headers on the Chevelle!

 

[bobs409]

Skip, are you sure on that yoke? My Chevelle catalogs show them and there are 2 to choose from. TH400 or powerglide/TH350/4 speed. The guy that's building the trans told me my current driveshaft will work with the M22.

Maybe this is a Camaro thing?

 

[64ss409]

Bob
I have a spare starter nose if it is what you are looking for. Three bolt mount. It fits 64, 65 409 and 396, 427. Maybe fits all 409's?
Ron

 

[bobs409]

Ron, I thought of doing that but looks complicated. For $45 dollars it would be easier to just get another.

 

[chevymusclecars]

Bob

We haven't had any updates lately, how is the project going?

Bill

 

[bobs409]

Stalled.

I have to wait for the trans now so I get the engine at the correct angle to put the Z bar in. I didn't think of this before pulling the automatic out or I would have done things a little differently.

I have all the clutch parts, bell and new starter in. Right side header was removed, blasted, coated with manifold coating and reinstalled. To make the most of my time, I've been reupholstering the seats. Just finished the last one 15 minutes ago in fact. Been ordering parts like crazy too. Maybe I should reword this the 4 speed swap/new interior install thread.

The trans should be done shortly after Christmas so it's getting close now. When it gets here, believe me, everyone will hear about it!

 

[chevymusclecars]

Every time I start a little project it turns in to a few other projects so I know what you mean. Sounds like you are through the worst of it though so good luck.

Bill