Thompson CT swap meet find!
- Thread starter 409envy
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Some expensive rust there, not saying it's a rust bucket just some what over priced considering
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Wow that's an expensive car!!!! I passed on a 409 340hp car in similar condition for $5000
Nope, last fall. Car was in primer but just to cover up all the mud in the car I suspect. Car started and ran but trans had issues. Car needed floors, trunk, glass, interior, etc. Basically a full restoration. It was still for sale this spring. Guy bought it, rebuilt the trans and carb and it was on Craigslist about 3 months ago
I would never pass up on a running driving 409 car for 5k especially if it's a car motor. And for the brown 63 with a 409 for 15k I don't think that's too far out compared to what people are selling just a running 409 for and that car looks like an ss and he probally has the trim for it or some of it at least.
Brian64SS
Well Known Member
I missed that one. Not that I could have another or spend even that small amount on a car right now, but someone got an incredible deal! I hope it went to a DIY-er who will spend $15k on restore parts and have a$30k car when done, and not to someone who will separate car and body.
$5K wasn't out of line I just was hoping for a car in better condition. It was in rough shape running thats the best way I can describe it. Would take $40-45K to restore the car well I would guess. I was hoping for a solid, crusty car that I would daily in the summer months as is. Was way too far gone for that. Rusty body mounts, rusty everything.
The guy that bought it fixed some stuff, put wheel cylinders in it and I think relisted it out on CL for $11500 if my memory serves correct? Right before Fall Jefferson.
The guy that bought it fixed some stuff, put wheel cylinders in it and I think relisted it out on CL for $11500 if my memory serves correct? Right before Fall Jefferson.
Brian64SS
Well Known Member
Jason,
I have to admit your $40-$45k number has me stunned. What can possibly cost that must to do on one of these cars? I can understand not doing final paint as a DIY step because you need a spray booth and haz-mat gear but what else can't be done by a guy in his garage? If I spent even $5k on paint, the car is no longer a useful, enjoyable car to me. It's just a piece of art that needs a climate controlled corner of its own to be displayed and a velvet rope around it.
I guess things have changed. I seem to be the only guy in my neighborhood who still does anything beyond cutting the grass. I had This Old House on the TV in the garage last night where they were almost pleading with people to get into the skilled building trades. Then I watched thousands of people protesting in the streets who don't have to get up to work this morning. Something remarkable has happened and I don't think it's good.
I have to admit your $40-$45k number has me stunned. What can possibly cost that must to do on one of these cars? I can understand not doing final paint as a DIY step because you need a spray booth and haz-mat gear but what else can't be done by a guy in his garage? If I spent even $5k on paint, the car is no longer a useful, enjoyable car to me. It's just a piece of art that needs a climate controlled corner of its own to be displayed and a velvet rope around it.
I guess things have changed. I seem to be the only guy in my neighborhood who still does anything beyond cutting the grass. I had This Old House on the TV in the garage last night where they were almost pleading with people to get into the skilled building trades. Then I watched thousands of people protesting in the streets who don't have to get up to work this morning. Something remarkable has happened and I don't think it's good.
I think the 40-45 figure is based on having the work preformed by a restoration shop, I expect it might be even higher. However I have done quite a few complete restorations on 61, 62 and 63 Chevrolets and I always figure the cost at about 25k with me doing most of the work. I always farmed out the engine, transmission and rear end rebuilding and the interior upholstery work. So, I always tried to estimate what the car was going to be worth in its restored state, then back the 25k out and that tells you what you can afford to pay for the unrestored car. However, I never figure what I have in a car until I finish because I don't want that to influence what I'm spending, I want a quality product when I'm finished. Remember, there is a heck of a difference between a quality restoration and a "fix up".
Brian64SS
Well Known Member
Tommy,
You raise an interesting philosophical question. You'd call my SS "fixed up". I guess I'd call it an ongoing restoration. I think the real problem with the hobby is that average Joe stays away because they don't know how to use tools anymore, and also are told the only way to do a car is to spend $25k - $45k replacing everything no matter what. I've rebuilt all the brakes, suspension and steering with new only where needed because I don't believe you have to throw everything original away to restore a car. That's more like replacing a car than restoring one. My SS has one piece of aftermarket trim on it. Not assembling your own engine for your own car? Maybe if you're building a high-revving race engine, but for anything else, read, ask questions, learn and do. If I didn't, the car wouldn't belong to me, it would belong to all those shops. It'll be that way until I physically can't do it anymore.
You raise an interesting philosophical question. You'd call my SS "fixed up". I guess I'd call it an ongoing restoration. I think the real problem with the hobby is that average Joe stays away because they don't know how to use tools anymore, and also are told the only way to do a car is to spend $25k - $45k replacing everything no matter what. I've rebuilt all the brakes, suspension and steering with new only where needed because I don't believe you have to throw everything original away to restore a car. That's more like replacing a car than restoring one. My SS has one piece of aftermarket trim on it. Not assembling your own engine for your own car? Maybe if you're building a high-revving race engine, but for anything else, read, ask questions, learn and do. If I didn't, the car wouldn't belong to me, it would belong to all those shops. It'll be that way until I physically can't do it anymore.
$50 - $80 an hour adds up fast, especially for welding skills and no bondo. I have computer skills and I'm handy with tools, I have never called a plumber or a general contractor. However, I don't have the time to do the job I wanted done on my '59. So instead of buying a Prius or a Cruz, I paid someone to do the work.
Regarding the jack wagons protesting, their feeler's have been hurt by actions which are yet to occur.
Brian,
I agree with what you are saying if you are able to do all those things, but over the years I have found that there are some things that I can do and do well but there are some things that I am better off just paying someone else to do. An example for me is the motor, yes I can and have assembled motors but that's all I can do, I don't have a machine shop so I can't do that work. That means I have to disasemble the motor, take it to the shop and have the machine work done then pick it up and reassemble it. I'd rather pay the engine shop to disassemble, do whatever has to be done and reassemble the motor and I also have them run it on their dyno, not that I care about the horsepower but that I want them to set the valves, adjust the timing etc because I don't want to be laying over the fenders adjusting valves (most of my cars have solid lifters) after I have assembled the front end. Another item is the interior, there are not many upholstery shops that I let work on my cars, I sure can't do it to suit me, its just my way, not saying it is the right way but you have to remember I'm doing show cars whereas most of the guys on this forum are building race cars and there is a big difference . Hopefully there is room for all of us
I agree with what you are saying if you are able to do all those things, but over the years I have found that there are some things that I can do and do well but there are some things that I am better off just paying someone else to do. An example for me is the motor, yes I can and have assembled motors but that's all I can do, I don't have a machine shop so I can't do that work. That means I have to disasemble the motor, take it to the shop and have the machine work done then pick it up and reassemble it. I'd rather pay the engine shop to disassemble, do whatever has to be done and reassemble the motor and I also have them run it on their dyno, not that I care about the horsepower but that I want them to set the valves, adjust the timing etc because I don't want to be laying over the fenders adjusting valves (most of my cars have solid lifters) after I have assembled the front end. Another item is the interior, there are not many upholstery shops that I let work on my cars, I sure can't do it to suit me, its just my way, not saying it is the right way but you have to remember I'm doing show cars whereas most of the guys on this forum are building race cars and there is a big difference . Hopefully there is room for all of us
Brian64SS
Well Known Member
Tommy,
I get your points. Looking at your long list of cars, you definitely have resources I don't have. The only things I've hired out so far in 24 years of owning the SS are aluminum-welding and tapping the shifter mounting holes in the Muncie and the latest final paint. I put the new seat foam and seatcovers on myself. I hated that. It made me miserable! I replaced the rear window and gasket which has a tiny leak I need to fix. My wife re-sewed and I installed the headliner which turned out awesome. The sail panels are original and not great. Trunk still needs paint. So there have been compromises. But then a guy saw it for the first time last year and said he'd cut off part of his body for the car. So it must be o.k. Someday when I'm done with it, it'll be sold to someone who will make a true show car out of it.
I get your points. Looking at your long list of cars, you definitely have resources I don't have. The only things I've hired out so far in 24 years of owning the SS are aluminum-welding and tapping the shifter mounting holes in the Muncie and the latest final paint. I put the new seat foam and seatcovers on myself. I hated that. It made me miserable! I replaced the rear window and gasket which has a tiny leak I need to fix. My wife re-sewed and I installed the headliner which turned out awesome. The sail panels are original and not great. Trunk still needs paint. So there have been compromises. But then a guy saw it for the first time last year and said he'd cut off part of his body for the car. So it must be o.k. Someday when I'm done with it, it'll be sold to someone who will make a true show car out of it.
$40K was assuming buying new sheet metal (floors, trunk floor, quarters, fenders, rockers, floor braces), paint n body, rebuilding the engine (machine shop bill to do it right...thats out of my league), interior from Cars Inc plus having an interior shop install the covers, suspension/brakes, wheels n tires. Maybe its not $40k but I think with a mix of doing some of the work yourself, farming out the body work and engine work, buying parts, etc I think you can get to $40k pretty easily on a "basket case" type vehicle. Mind you, the car I looked at wasn't a solid driver.....it was a rusty pile that happened to have a 409 in the engine bay.
Brian64SS
Well Known Member
You're probably right on the $40k Jason for parts plus Radars $50-$80 per hour for labor to have all that done. If it wasn't the original engine for the car, maybe it'd be better off going into a nicer car. As for engines out of your league, I bet you could do it. I've rebuilt lawn mower engines and freshened up one of my 283's so will do the 409 also. My dad was a machinist/engineer and about 15 years ago he mic'd the cylinders for me with his dial indicator. They're std. bore and within tolerance. I believe the 57,000 miles on the odometer when I got the car was accurate even though the engine was a mixture of parts and the body and interior were really beat. So it's getting OEM std. bore rings/pistons, no line bore, no 3-angle valve job, no special cam. Just 340 hp specs and 4GC carb. The next guy can make all the changes if he wants to.
I guess part of is I'm paranoid about leaving the 409 in anyone else's hands. I've read stories (on this site) about number matching engines dropped off for a cleaning and check with clear instructions NOT to deck. Then the guy picks it up and the shop says "Hey, we did you a favor and DECKED it right away. We wont even charge you!"
Or the resto shop that keeps a car for 3 years, loses parts of it and charges twice the agreed upon price.
Steering, brake and suspension rebuilds, rewiring, a lot of interior and trim work, etc. on these cars is easy for an average shade tree mechanic. Rotisserie and frame-off would be nice someday if I ever have the time, space and $ but you can raise the body just a few inches to repair body mounts. Just my 2 cents....
I guess part of is I'm paranoid about leaving the 409 in anyone else's hands. I've read stories (on this site) about number matching engines dropped off for a cleaning and check with clear instructions NOT to deck. Then the guy picks it up and the shop says "Hey, we did you a favor and DECKED it right away. We wont even charge you!"
Or the resto shop that keeps a car for 3 years, loses parts of it and charges twice the agreed upon price.
Steering, brake and suspension rebuilds, rewiring, a lot of interior and trim work, etc. on these cars is easy for an average shade tree mechanic. Rotisserie and frame-off would be nice someday if I ever have the time, space and $ but you can raise the body just a few inches to repair body mounts. Just my 2 cents....
If I had deep pockets I would farm out all the work but like when I bought my white 63 ss 409 car which was complete but taken apart I had no money and was fresh out of a divorse so the 4500 I paid killed me but it was my first real 409 car. Is it a show car now? No but it's done as motor and trans where rebuilt by me as was the paint and headliner. Seats where the only thing I paid to have done but I do really enjoy driving it. Do I want a show car ?yes but some of us just want to have a cool car and enjoying it without spending more on it than my first house!!!
Cayneman
Well Known Member
If you think you can fully restore a car for 40-45K you've got to be kidding me. That in my estimation would be a half assed job. My 63 Impala (car in my avatar) a complete nut and bolt frame off restoration with 500 miles on it has way more then that into it. The rechroming bill alone was over $7,000.00. Where do you get a decent paint job for 5K?
Gary
Gary
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