Bayer Z-11
- Thread starter 409Kid
- Start date
Your Z 11 at the 15 second mark of this video……….
409Kid
Well Known Member
Okay… so I met with Von for several hours today in Yuba City to talk about this car and catch-up on old times. He admits that he’s fuzzy on a lot of details but was able to fill in some gaps and gave me a fore-story
First, prior to owning the Bayer car he lived in Baldwin Park which is part of Los Angeles. During that time he had a ‘65 Chevelle drag car that he had installed a 482 cid Z-11 with a 2x4 intake. It’s unknown whether entire engine was originally a Z-11 The engine was bought from the Ermshar Bros,, Jim and Don, who had a ‘62 Chevy lightweight and also were big time drag boat racers. The brothers held national records in the Blown Gas Flatbottom Class in NDBA and possibly IHBA during the 1980’s.
The 482 ci engine grenaded badly and the bottom end was destroyed. The Z-11 heads were taken to a shop that sounds phonetically like “Cyclone Accels Well” in LA where they were repaired. Does the phoenitcs ring a bell to anyone? One head had significant flak damage which required milling and port repairs. I believe the heads I have are possibly from this engine. One head was skimmed -.050” from the other. There are also two valve pockets with braze repairs done to them which Von had described to me.
Von bought the Bayer Car after moving to Yuba City. It was locally traded for a ‘62 Corvette roller that came out of Mel’s Auto Wreckers also in Yuba City. He doesn’t remember who he got the Bayer car from or what year in the early/mid 1970’s it was purchased. He thought as late as 1975. The car also came to him as a roller minus the engine, transmission, aluminum hood and fan shroud. He installed the 425 hp short block and the repaired Z-11 top half then mated to a Muncie 4 spd. Since he was driving this car on the street HE removed the delete plates and installed a radio and heater setup from a 63 chevy donor car, also from Mel’s Auto Wrecking. So that answers that question.
While owning the Bayer car he bought a Z-11 air cleaner & cowl vent, another set of heads and a Z-11 1X4 intake manifold from Doug Hughes in AZ. (The name he has on a piece of paper from back then says “Dave Hughes AZ” with a phone number. Maybe some one here can verify the name? I was told that he was a big 409 /Z-11 guy back then. The air cleaner Von bought from Hughes had the back cut out of it. Possibly for clearance to run a magneto(?).
Von did say that the car had been wrecked before he owned it. I don’t know if he was referring to the Bayer “pre delivery damage”, a rollover attributed to this car reported in a previous post or the hood damage in the driveway. Are all of damage these accounts true or are some myths? IDK. He did say this car had no sound deadener in it and the car was quite loud inside.
I showed Von this thread and I think he will follow the progress. If I butchered up my notes and this story or he nhas anything to add I hope he will chime in and set me straight.
Von was kind enough to give me a pic of the car when he purchased it and the Bayer Racing business card showing an El Monte CA address. On the back are 3 phone numbers and under them the name Barney Kaase (?)
I also have
“Dave Hughes”(?). 602 area code number
Mark “Z-11” 651 area code
Jim Gerr(?) 213 area code
And finally
Charlie Wilson 304 area code
This person was researching Z-11 cars and thought that this one was possibly the Porter car.
I doubt any of the phone numbers I have will connect me to someone with knowledge of this car anymore but, you just don’t know unless you try.
First, prior to owning the Bayer car he lived in Baldwin Park which is part of Los Angeles. During that time he had a ‘65 Chevelle drag car that he had installed a 482 cid Z-11 with a 2x4 intake. It’s unknown whether entire engine was originally a Z-11 The engine was bought from the Ermshar Bros,, Jim and Don, who had a ‘62 Chevy lightweight and also were big time drag boat racers. The brothers held national records in the Blown Gas Flatbottom Class in NDBA and possibly IHBA during the 1980’s.
The 482 ci engine grenaded badly and the bottom end was destroyed. The Z-11 heads were taken to a shop that sounds phonetically like “Cyclone Accels Well” in LA where they were repaired. Does the phoenitcs ring a bell to anyone? One head had significant flak damage which required milling and port repairs. I believe the heads I have are possibly from this engine. One head was skimmed -.050” from the other. There are also two valve pockets with braze repairs done to them which Von had described to me.
Von bought the Bayer Car after moving to Yuba City. It was locally traded for a ‘62 Corvette roller that came out of Mel’s Auto Wreckers also in Yuba City. He doesn’t remember who he got the Bayer car from or what year in the early/mid 1970’s it was purchased. He thought as late as 1975. The car also came to him as a roller minus the engine, transmission, aluminum hood and fan shroud. He installed the 425 hp short block and the repaired Z-11 top half then mated to a Muncie 4 spd. Since he was driving this car on the street HE removed the delete plates and installed a radio and heater setup from a 63 chevy donor car, also from Mel’s Auto Wrecking. So that answers that question.
While owning the Bayer car he bought a Z-11 air cleaner & cowl vent, another set of heads and a Z-11 1X4 intake manifold from Doug Hughes in AZ. (The name he has on a piece of paper from back then says “Dave Hughes AZ” with a phone number. Maybe some one here can verify the name? I was told that he was a big 409 /Z-11 guy back then. The air cleaner Von bought from Hughes had the back cut out of it. Possibly for clearance to run a magneto(?).
Von did say that the car had been wrecked before he owned it. I don’t know if he was referring to the Bayer “pre delivery damage”, a rollover attributed to this car reported in a previous post or the hood damage in the driveway. Are all of damage these accounts true or are some myths? IDK. He did say this car had no sound deadener in it and the car was quite loud inside.
I showed Von this thread and I think he will follow the progress. If I butchered up my notes and this story or he nhas anything to add I hope he will chime in and set me straight.
Von was kind enough to give me a pic of the car when he purchased it and the Bayer Racing business card showing an El Monte CA address. On the back are 3 phone numbers and under them the name Barney Kaase (?)
I also have
“Dave Hughes”(?). 602 area code number
Mark “Z-11” 651 area code
Jim Gerr(?) 213 area code
And finally
Charlie Wilson 304 area code
This person was researching Z-11 cars and thought that this one was possibly the Porter car.
I doubt any of the phone numbers I have will connect me to someone with knowledge of this car anymore but, you just don’t know unless you try.
Last edited:
Thanks for the ride I’m enjoying it
Doug has a wealth of knowledge. Raced W car for years.
Bob
409Kid
Well Known Member
What is now uncertain is whether Bayer sold the car to the “Barstow rich kid” complete or as a roller for $1200. I suspect the car was reasonably complete. While talking with another friend familiar with the car in the ‘70s and beyond, the following questions now arise. Who bought the car from Bayer. Who brought the car to Yuba City from SoCal? When did it come up from SoCal ) Why did the car come north? Did it have an engine then? Where did those missing pieces end up?
Those questions stem from the fact that there was a complete Z-11 that had rested in a Plymouth coupe in the Sacramento area. I had known this story since the late 1970’s as the claimed owners of the car were the ones telling me. The two old gents relating this story to me were in their late 50’s early 60’s by my estimations, but I was only 17-19 years old so being old was a relative term back then. Heck 30 was old to me then. lol.
Well they insisted they still owned the car and showed me a dusty old B&W side view photo of this old coupe. They had said the Z-11 had been in this coupe since the mid 1960s. Was this the engine from the Bayer car? Maybe the Porter Car since both were reportedly last known in northern Ca according to the registry. Was it the Porter car being confused with the Bayer car After all, it was originally thought that this was the Porter car based on what Charlie Wilson said when he was trying to do research on the Z-11s for a book or article(?) back in the 1980’s. It was assumed this was the Porter car until recent facts came to life just last week and now with what Von has shared.
This complete engine from the coupe was then sold and made its way to Phil Reed. I saw the engine strapped down in a PU at a local swapped meet before it was being shipped to Kansas. I think it sold for $10k at the time. Made me sad that I didn’t Stay in contact with the owners of the coupe. But they weren’t interested in a kid hanging around asking a bunch of fool questions. I had to respect that because that was how I was raised.
I put in a PM to Phil a week ago through this website and haven’t had a response. I’m curious as to whose car this engine came out of. Maybe it was Leal’s engine since that car is missing also. IDK. If the engine hadn’t been decked and Phil still has it or somebody bought it from him I would be curious to know what the VIN number was just to know what car it came from. Perhaps it will lead to other clues for mine or someone else’s research
I would like to find QM F167173. Hey it could happen.
Those questions stem from the fact that there was a complete Z-11 that had rested in a Plymouth coupe in the Sacramento area. I had known this story since the late 1970’s as the claimed owners of the car were the ones telling me. The two old gents relating this story to me were in their late 50’s early 60’s by my estimations, but I was only 17-19 years old so being old was a relative term back then. Heck 30 was old to me then. lol.
Well they insisted they still owned the car and showed me a dusty old B&W side view photo of this old coupe. They had said the Z-11 had been in this coupe since the mid 1960s. Was this the engine from the Bayer car? Maybe the Porter Car since both were reportedly last known in northern Ca according to the registry. Was it the Porter car being confused with the Bayer car After all, it was originally thought that this was the Porter car based on what Charlie Wilson said when he was trying to do research on the Z-11s for a book or article(?) back in the 1980’s. It was assumed this was the Porter car until recent facts came to life just last week and now with what Von has shared.
This complete engine from the coupe was then sold and made its way to Phil Reed. I saw the engine strapped down in a PU at a local swapped meet before it was being shipped to Kansas. I think it sold for $10k at the time. Made me sad that I didn’t Stay in contact with the owners of the coupe. But they weren’t interested in a kid hanging around asking a bunch of fool questions. I had to respect that because that was how I was raised.
I put in a PM to Phil a week ago through this website and haven’t had a response. I’m curious as to whose car this engine came out of. Maybe it was Leal’s engine since that car is missing also. IDK. If the engine hadn’t been decked and Phil still has it or somebody bought it from him I would be curious to know what the VIN number was just to know what car it came from. Perhaps it will lead to other clues for mine or someone else’s research
I would like to find QM F167173. Hey it could happen.
Last edited:
Phil reed sold the z11 parts to phalon 409 on this site. He did not have a qm block ,only a 425 HP block. If you go through his postings you can see that. So that motor ( parts ) are in 63 shaker that phalon 409 sold. I am pretty sure what I have said but correct me if wrong.
Click on his user name and then click on his messages box Scroll through them.
Floyd Horton
Well Known Member
I bought the shortblock from Phil. The shortblock was a 482. Phil told me he sold the topend to a man from Utah that had 3 Z'11s. The shortblock was destroyed when a rod bolt broke. It had some old Venolia pistons in it. Still have some of those. It had a billet stroker crank in it that had plates welded to the counterweights for balance. One rod throw was badly damaged and I sent the crank to Ohio Crank for repair. They Xrayed the crank and said it was cracked and not fixable.
But Phil did sell some z11 top end parts to Dennis Phalon 409 ??? I was thinking he had it all laid out on a bench showing all that went to Dennis.
409envy
Well Known Member
Phil sold his collection of Z11 parts and pieces that were all dated from late 62. This collection was the basis for the New York Shaker tribute build that Dennis completed. The block was a standard bore 425hp qb.
You will have a snow balls chance in hell of finding a legit QM block (unless you’re Pat Lobb =) Many z11’s out in circulation that claim to be QM have in fact been re stamped.
Too bad you weren’t looking for z11 parts when Don Fezell got rid of his stash.What a treasure trove.
www.mecum.com
Don Fezell's Lifelong Parts Collection - January 12-14
Don Fezell's Lifelong Parts Collection - January 12-14
www.mecum.com
Damn....7 years ago already....
I was lucky enough to get a balancer out of that collection ha haToo bad you weren’t looking for z11 parts when Don Fezell got rid of his stash.What a treasure trove.
Don Fezell's Lifelong Parts Collection - January 12-14
Don Fezell's Lifelong Parts Collection - January 12-14