Heat sensitive 409's! Is that why there are so few left?

[benchseat4speed]

The mechanic who built this engine is at least sticking by his work and making the repairs.

That's great to hear, contrare to the goings on in other threads right now

I'll keep the pushrod failure in mind, I just might throw a set of 1 piece pushrods in mine....although I bet a hydraulic 340hp cam is a lot easier on pushrods then your solid 425hp cam

 

[62impala409]

For whatever reason, I have seen bent and broken push rods on the W motor for almost 50 years. I install the heavier wall chromealloy push rods and that seems to have solved this issue. Leo

 

[models916]

Oh boy, you have two piece push rods too. I never use them. Had one come apart back in 1967 and never used them again. Mabye better today? Been using Manley one piece since without any failures.

 

[Michael Cohen]

So included in this discussion of overheating how about anyone using some kind of heat shield to help the starter not to get so hot? The car ran great today but again after it heats up it starts tough.

 

[Michael Cohen]

is that a stock pushrod? 348 or 409? what diameter

409 I don't think they are stock but I'll find out.

 

[Michael Cohen]

Here are a couple of pictures that Michael sent me to share with you guys...

This looks good...


This doesn't look good at all...


Michael, hope you get this all sorted out soon
Bill

Bill will send some more pics to your email.

 

[62impala409]

So included in this discussion of overheating how about anyone using some kind of heat shield to help the starter not to get so hot? The car ran great today but again after it heats up it starts tough.

My electrical shop told me that those 50 year old starters that are heat sensitive have copper wound field coils with failing varnish insulation that are expanding and shorting to ground. I went to a mini starter 15 years ago and have zero problems since. Many of our forum members have done the same for piece of mind. Leo

 

[Michael Cohen]

My electrical shop told me that those 50 year old starters that are heat sensitive have copper wound field coils with failing varnish insulation that are expanding and shorting to ground. I went to a mini starter 15 years ago and have zero problems since. Many of our forum members have done the same for piece of mind. Leo

Does this happen even if it has been rebuilt?

 

[62impala409]

YES! A rebuild usually involves new brushes and bushing, maybe a new solenoid. The field coils will look OK but could have compromised insulation. The solenoid is also an important part of the starter. I have seen them range from as little as $10 to $60. The cheap ones won't carry the current required for the big motors. BTW, I paid about $150 for my Delco style mini starter that is used on the late model big block pickups and the Tahoe/Suburbans. Leo

 

[DonSSDD]

The minis also are not close to the exhaust so they don't get as much heat.

Don

 

[Michael Cohen]

YES! A rebuild usually involves new brushes and bushing, maybe a new solenoid. The field coils will look OK but could have compromised insulation. The solenoid is also an important part of the starter. I have seen them range from as little as $10 to $60. The cheap ones won't carry the current required for the big motors. BTW, I paid about $150 for my Delco style mini starter that is used on the late model big block pickups and the Tahoe/Suburbans. Leo

Thx I think this is the way to go!

 

[Michael Cohen]

When the engine is hot the engine sometimes "runs on". When you turn the ignition on the motor restarts. What is the best way to get the motor to stop without damage. I know "dumping the clutch '' is probably bad. What alternatives?

 

[64ss409]

Lowering the idle speed helps.

 

[Michael Cohen]

Lowering the idle speed helps.

Carb adjustment idle right?

 

[our1962]

Michael,

Before you go and condemn your starter.

Make sure and I believe it's wire 67 or 167 pin out of the bulk head connector from your ingnition too the starter isn't corroded or just worn out at the bulk head connector. If you don't have a shop manual buy one it's a cheap investment as there reproduction not original and it will show you every wire pinned out of the bulk head connector.

I thought I had the same issue as you with the 327 as the headers wrapped around the starter. So when I put the 409/409 in the 62 with stock exhaust I had the same issue changed out starters, had starters rebuilt purchased mini starters with high out put still know resolve. It was the wire and after I ran a new wire through the bulk head connector my starting issues were resolved and it's easy as there is blank connector holes at the bulk head plug.

Remember if you didn't buy a new wiring harness it's 50+ years old. Hope this helps!!!!!!!!

Happy Motoring Ted

 

[yellow wagon]

Back off idle adjustment screws (both) to get idle under 1000 rpm. I believe the best scenario with a performance motor is get it to idle as fast as possible yet without dieseling when you shut it off. Keep that oil pump spinning to keep oil pressure up. Mine idles at 950rpm, sounds great and shuts off nice no dieseling.

Really spend some time on the idle setting. Play with base timing, idle bleed screw adjustment and idle speed. All three of those things need to play together in order for you to get best idle quality. In my years of tuning holleys I think those are much easier to get a clean idle. The edelbrock is a nice carb cuz a bit touchy to get dialed in but that could also be my lack of experience working on them. But spend some time on it and you'll be happy

 

[Nuts]

Here are a few more pictures that Michael sent... He'll have to tell you what they are because I not knowing !!







Bill

 

[Michael Cohen]

Here are a few more pictures that Michael sent... He'll have to tell you what they are because I not knowing !!







Bill

Well the one at the top is Hood open to get air into intake to start up and cool down a little. Next is one straight rod one that was bent we think by the failed rod. And motor apart with rods out to be replaced.

 

[1961BelAir427]

Just seeing this. Nice 63.....has a real sleeper look to it. I felt so bad for you when I read the first few posts, but after reading the rest.....WOW you were so blessed not to have any more damage. I'm happy for you.
I'll second a vote for the late model big block truck mini-starter. Ask for one for something like a 96 C2500 with a 7.4L (454) and that will work good. Weighs less than half what your old starter weighs too!

 

[62impala409]

The best part about the mini starters is that the high speed motor uses a gear reduction for torque and the permanent magnets that replace the field coils are unaffected by heat soak. The one thing to be aware of is that the newer truck mini starter solenoids generally do not have the second small terminal for the wire that goes to the coil for starting voltage. I had to rewire my coil to another source that had 12Volts while cranking. BTW, Some mini starters do come with the correct terminals, so do your research. Leo