oil additives cams

our1962

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
Hi All,

I read a few weeks back or months that we need to add an oil additive with the new oil restrictions of removing Zinc Oxide or will lose the cam or lifters.

Now the question I just rebuilt my 409-409 now roller type cam-lifters and I use Castrol GTX 20-50W oil. Do I need to ad an additive to my oil? :dunno


Thanks Ted

Our1962 409-409
 

our1962

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
correction oil additives

Hello,

I meant non roller cam-lifters! :doh

Thanks Ted

Our1962 409-409
 

petepedlar

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
For what it costs I would add a bottle of GM's EOS....... I've used it for years. I add 1/2 a bottle with every oil change and have never had an oiling issue of any kind.

Dave
 

Tic's60

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
Here is something I found pretty interesting regarding oil the other day. An engine builder, not mine, did an indepent testing of different oils that he sells and can get. None of the oil was identifiable to the testers by name just numbers
Mind you I am no oil expert I am just passing the info on.

Low to high on ZINC in Parts Per Million

Standard 30W 1023 PPM
Brad Penn 1165 PPM - This suprised me cause I like this oil and Norm
DELO 1235 PPM - DELO 400
Joe Gibbs Oil XP4 2465 PPM - WOW - Lakespeed uses this oil
None are synthetic oils.

So that's what I know.

IMHO 50-60 in oil is nothing compared to 600+ in a cam.
 

jr.W

Well Known Member
Tic do you know if the Joe Gibbs oil tested was his cam break in oil or
some thing different. They have a specific oil for cam break in.
 

Tic's60

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
Tic do you know if the Joe Gibbs oil tested was his cam break in oil or
some thing different. They have a specific oil for cam break in.

I am pretty sure that was the XP 4 type since I was looking for Brad Penn local dealers for the 50w BP oil, the BR type has more I am sure.
 

our1962

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
thank you

Thanks,

I'll post pictures of the finished install in a couple of weeks she's looking real fine with the 409-409! :brow

Thanks Again Ted

Our 1962 409-409
 

dq409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
Interesting,,,

I just changed my oil in my new bike and went with the Mobil 1 V-Twin Syn oil.
Reading about it on their website it looks like a good oil to use in our car engines.

I can`t find the zinc and Phos amounts but it does say that it has more then the car oils.
Anyone have that info?

This is what their site says,,,

FAQs for Motorcycle Oil

So how is Mobil 1 for passenger cars different from Mobil 1 for motorcycles?

First, let's be clear about Mobil 1's overall benefits compared to those of conventional motor oils, whether for passenger cars or motorcycles:

Superior long-term engine protection.

Superior high-temperature stability.

Excellent low-temperature starting.

Outstanding engine performance.

Low volatility/low oil consumption

It's a little hard to generalize about the difference between Mobil 1 passenger-car motor oils and Mobil 1 motorcycle oils. That's because not all viscosities of Mobil 1 passenger-car oils have the same levels of zinc and phosphorus, and there are even greater differences among the three Mobil 1 motorcycle oils. In general, Mobil 1 motorcycle oils have:

Additive packages balanced differently for motorcycle engine and transmission operation. For passenger vehicles, fuel economy and emission system protection are higher priorities. These require low phosphorus systems and the use of friction modifiers.


What are the overall advantages of Mobil 1 motorcycle oils?

In addition to the overall benefits listed above – specifically, high-temperature stability and low volatility/low oil consumption – Mobil 1 synthetic motorcycle oils also offer superior anti-corrosion performance compared to conventional motor oil, which is important in many parts of the country where bikes may sit in garages for several months of the year.

Compared to conventional oils, Mobil 1 motorcycle oils provide superior wear and high-temperature protection, and promote engine cleanliness and lower oil consumption.

Once you get past these general advantages, you have to deal with each specific motorcycle oil one at a time to understand the benefits.

The motorcycle oil also has more phosphorus/zinc for enhanced wear protection at high engine speeds and high loads.


What about Mobil 1 V-Twin oil? How is that different from Mobil 1 for passenger cars?

Mobil 1 V-Twin oil is designed for air-cooled, large-displacement bikes. Because of their design, these engines can generate very high localized oil temperatures and high overall bulk-oil temperatures.

As you know, a typical air-cooled V-twin's rear cylinder gets a lot hotter than the front cylinder – it's a matter of airflow. When it's hot out and you're stuck in traffic, the oil temperature in your bike climbs rapidly. Above about 250°F, conventional motor oil is going to break down. Mobil 1 V-Twin synthetic oil is good to above 300F.

Like Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40, Mobil 1 V-Twin has high levels of phosphorus/zinc and the same high-temperature detergent technology for superior wear protection and engine cleanliness, even at elevated oil temperatures.

With Mobil 1 V-Twin oil, you can go the full length of the manufacturer's recommended oil change intervals with ease.
 

oil4kids

Well Known Member
Amsoil Synthetic racing oil has between 1200-1500 ppm zinc but also has a diester synthetic base which raises the fire point and flash point of the oil and the film strength

you cant just add tons of zinc to improve an oil

In a recent video on the amsoil site Bobby Unser admits he used amsoil synthetics in his indy cars camoflouged in valvoline containers in the 70's and 80's

http://www.amsoil.com/video/company/index.aspx

click on the bobby unser link
 

dq409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
Mark, Thanks for posting that !!
I was about to post a question to you about Amsoil but after looking at the Amsoil site I found half the answer.
I`ll ask for the other half of the question at the end of this post.
I think we all could learn something here.

As I just said a post or two back that I had switched to Mobil 1 V-Twin oil in my bike.

I`m now glad I did.
On the Amsoil site they have a very good comparision to bike oils that show Amsoil coming in first and Mobil 1 V-Twin second.
It is a very in-depth study IMO,,
It`s about 25 pages long but fast reading,,
Check it out;
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf

Now to the second part of my question,,,
Would it be wise to use the motocycle oils in our car engines?
They seem to have more protection and some cross overs in areas as temp, storage (as in periods of non use), and other related areas.
Does Amsoil have a study on car oils like the motorcycle one?
Whats your take on this?,, dq

PS, I think the next oil change I`ll go with the Amsoil
 

oil4kids

Well Known Member
Dq

I worked in a auto store since 1971 and pretty much tried all the oils out there including arco graphite.

I started using Amsoil 20w50 racing in my copo 70 nova 396/375 back in 1986. I was using Castrol 20w50 but after a friend told me about Amsoil I tried it. I noticed the solid lifters were quieter even after i let the motor sit for awhile and noticed the motor ran cooler. Since 1986 i use amsoil in all my 396, 454s and 409s and small blocks too.

And i dont give a dam what Lamar Walden said about synthetics. Let him go ask all the nascar engine builders. There all using some type of synthetics which they may modify with moly or other additives. I have never had an engine failure in all my small and big block chevys with amsoil.

In fact as you know i started to sell it after people kept asking me where to get it. I know the president of the company pretty well (an Air force pilot) and he is an absoute quality control fanatic when it comes to the additives and base stocks.

There used to be a oil called HPS, high performace synthetics out of california which had a big following with the Baja 500 guys but i think his father in law forced him out of business.

Some of the Royal Purple, Neo and Torco and Bel ray synthetics are also pretty good. STP used to have a 15000 mile 10-50 oil which i think was a parasynthetic but i dont know if thats still on the market.
 

dq409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
Thanks Mark,,

Back to my question about using the motorcycle oils in cars,,

Would it be better then the cars oils,,??
Seems to me it would after reading about them,,,dq
 

our1962

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
Update engine install

Hello,

Well if everything that could go south could it did!!!:doh

I was going to use everything from my bellhousing back but all was either shot or worn to include a spider crack in the bellhousing!!!!:doh

With that being said the car is now new and I mean new. We found all of the parts required from California to South Georgia and all states in between!!!:p

While waiting for the parts to arrive we decided since the drive train was all new the suspension should take a transformation too!!!! So we repalced the front and rear springs too include shocks. The front end also recieved new upper and lower ball joints to include bushings.

We're waiting on another set of down pipes from Showcars as the first set was ordered incorrectly they should be here next week and the wild mouse will be on the road.

I had a temp set of downpipes made here locally as I wants to hear the wild mouse and she sounded like the WILD BEAST!!!!:p

I update with pictures of the entire car in a couple of weeks oncce she's on road down here in the SUNSHINE STATE :cool:

Thanks for all the Support!!!!:cheers

Ted

Our 1962
 

dq409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
Hello,

Well if everything that could go south could it did!!!:doh

I was going to use everything from my bellhousing back but all was either shot or worn to include a spider crack in the bellhousing!!!!:doh

With that being said the car is now new and I mean new. We found all of the parts required from California to South Georgia and all states in between!!!:p

While waiting for the parts to arrive we decided since the drive train was all new the suspension should take a transformation too!!!! So we repalced the front and rear springs too include shocks. The front end also recieved new upper and lower ball joints to include bushings.

We're waiting on another set of down pipes from Showcars as the first set was ordered incorrectly they should be here next week and the wild mouse will be on the road.

I had a temp set of downpipes made here locally as I wants to hear the wild mouse and she sounded like the WILD BEAST!!!!:p

I update with pictures of the entire car in a couple of weeks oncce she's on road down here in the SUNSHINE STATE :cool:

Thanks for all the Support!!!!:cheers

Ted

Our 1962

What does this have to do with oil ???:scratch :dunno


oil4kids said:
Some of the Royal Purple, Neo and Torco and Bel ray synthetics are also pretty good.

According to the test Amsoil has (my Posted test), some of these oils are not that good.
Royal Purple failed several tests that I consider musts to pass and came in 7 and 8th over all.

That test was a motorcycle oil test but I would guess that it could be used to show that these oils also are good and bad in the same areas of car oil.,,dq
 

our1962

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
was does this have too do with oil

dr,

I just wanted to share the entire project with the forum.

I could've installed the W BEAST in the 1962. But then it would've just been a worn out 1962 with a new 409-409.

Now she's a fine 1962 with a she's so fine 409-409 and with all the Support I've recieved from the forum on oil additives as I do not want to wipe out the new cam she should make another 45 years of fine driving and LIFE. :cool:

I'll attach some pictures of the new W in the car as we we're awaiting the parts from California to Florida so this would be a Quality project.

I'll post pictures of the completed project as she hit the road yesterday and runs and sounds strong!!!!:) Here's some pictures from the first weekend with just W in the 1962.

Ted
Our 1962
 

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Ronnie Russell

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
Ted, beautiful car with great looking engine compartment. Congratulations on a job well done. Please get rid of the upper radiator hose and replace with molded. Looking forward to hearing more about how she runs. :)
 

dq409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
Very nice !!!

I agree on that hose,,,though


What did you use on the inside of the hood for that mirror look ??
 
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