2 Belt Set Up for Gen, Water Pump and Crank

[32witha409]

So I had fan induced belt slippage before the rebuild, still have it. It occurs while the fan clutch is engaged and the rpm is moderate and higher ( ~2500+).
I only have one belt running on one groove pulleys. What options would I have for my 60 that would be OEM configured?

 

[427John]

If you're already running deep groove pulleys one thing that you could try would be to get or fabricate an idler pulley/bracket and mount it between the crank and fan pulley on the driver side, it would need to be a flat edge pulley that ran against the backside of the V-belt pushing it in towards the crank and water pump thus gaining more wrap (contact surface) on the crank and water pump pulleys. If you don't already have deep groove pulleys you might try those first. Since you only get it when the fan clutch engages that leads me to believe your slippage is on the crank or water pump pulley.

 

[55Brodie]

Try a notched v-belt. A backside idler is not ideal for v-belts.

 

[Rickys61]

How about a factory style idler pulley??

 

[427John]

A factory style idler would pull the belt away from the crank and WP pulley lessening the belt wrap.

 

[32witha409]

Likely the WP pulley as it has the least degrees of wrap.
I don't know it the pulleys are deep or not. Attached image before rebuild but same pulleys.

 

[427John]

Based on the title of the thread it sounds like you may be considering a 2 belt setup in which case you could either run 2 groove crank and WP pulleys with either a 2 groove generator pulley or run the second belt over to a factory style idler on the driver side as Rickys61 suggested.

 

[32witha409]

Only have the gen. for adjustment and I think only 1 groove pulleys are available. Probably need an adjustable idler to handle the second belt tensioning.

 

[Jim Sullivan]

I thought the factory idler pulley used a second belt, in place of a power steering pump? If so, this could be a solution for your slippage. You would then need different pulleys.

 

[32witha409]

I thought the factory idler pulley used a second belt, in place of a power steering pump? If so, this could be a solution for your slippage. You would then need different pulleys.

This makes sense. Two groove WP and crank, single gen and idler pulleys.
Anyone have a factory idler assembly?

 

[Rickys61]

A factory style idler would pull the belt away from the crank and WP pulley lessening the belt wrap.

This would solve his problems..would need a two groove water pump and crank pulley as well…

 

[32witha409]

I would have had an idler but the asshole who sold me the 409 in my roadster, removed it. It was agreed to be there. He disappeared. Prick.

 

[32witha409]

Thanks for help guys, now need to find the idler setup.

 

[32witha409]

After digging through the parts manual for the correct FH code setup, I see that the factory water pump pulley was a two row deep groove two part, front single #3724816 and rear 3713974 single groove, nesting together. Both are available used for mucho dinero. Is there a compatible new production one part that will work with the 3766987 original /3858533 current, crank pulley?

 

[427John]

I think the 3770245 wp pulley is the deep 2 groove pulley compatible with the 987/533 crank pulley. Not sure how available it is though.

 

[55Brodie]

I see you have the notched style belt. Retension it slightly more. If all else fails, a bar of soap on the belt flanks will stop the squeal.

 

[32witha409]

I see you have the notched style belt. Retension it slightly more. If all else fails, a bar of soap on the belt flanks will stop the squeal.

After looking at my manuals I see that the factory belt configuration with 2 drive belts has a purpose.
Anybody use the Eklers tensioner idler? Looks correct.

Full Size Chevy Idler Pulley Assembly, 348ci & 409ci, 1958-1962

This Chevrolet reproduction idler pulley assembly has been manufactured to original factory specifications using today's modern manufacturing techniques. You will find the fit, finish and function will work superbly for your restoration. In addition, using a reproduction idler pulley assembly...

www.classicchevy.com

 

[pvs409]

Show Cars Inc has new original 348 & 409 pulleys, and new idler sets, don’t use Ecklers.
I bet that idler pulley set came from Show Cars.
Show Cars started and continues to reproduce the 409 & 348 pulleys.

I believe the two piece dual upper deep groove pulleys used a factory spacer between the pulleys

I have a friend that has the original deep groove water pump 348/409 pulleys I can get from him to sell.
I have repro and original deep groove pulleys on my 409’s, to my knowledge the 348 high horsepower motors came with the same deep groove pulleys.

Paul

 

[32witha409]

Show Cars Inc has new original 348 & 409 pulleys, and new idler sets, don’t use Ecklers.
I bet that idler pulley set came from Show Cars.
Show Cars started and continues to reproduce the 409 & 348 pulleys.

I believe the two piece dual upper deep groove pulleys used a factory spacer between the pulleys

I have a friend that has the original deep groove water pump 348/409 pulleys I can get from him to sell.
I have repro and original deep groove pulleys on my 409’s, to my knowledge the 348 high horsepower motors came with the same deep groove pulleys.

Paul

Show-Cars sells a fabricated mounting bracket, the Ecklers is cast iron like the OEM. Same price for either and I like the design of the Ecklers unit over a fabricated one. Just wondered if anybody has used one.
They do sell several pulleys that visually look like they could work but have so little technical information on the applications on the site.

From the parts manual, I know the crank and WP pulley set are part number specific for the FH and similar HP 348 engines between 59-61 and several others including 61-63 409 WO CAC. 6-3/4 OD crank, no OD on the WP pulleys in manual but I found relevant measurements elsewhere of 7-1/8 OD.
Pasted from previous post WP pulley stamped part numbers.
front single #3724816 and rear 3713974 single groove, nesting together.

 

[pvs409]

Trying help you with options..

My point is that Ecklers does not make the idler they buy it from someone makes it. They are a reseller.
Ecklers charges sales tax and high shipping costs and sell inferior products from my personal experience with over 10 frame off restorations.
As I said buy from who makes that idler ( if they won’t tell you who makes the idler call others like Hubbard and call Show Cars they will explain the Idler application they have).
Show Cars company was started by a 1963 409 owner years ago to specialize in 348 and 409 parts.

Show Cars does not charge me 7 % sales tax for parts I buy and ship to Iowa.

Having built/ restored 7 - 409 cars, I learned that the Show Cars pulleys are high quality and correct as are their 348 & 409 reproduction air cleaners and clutch linkage and many other items. I have used the spacer part # 1152A Show Cars plus at least 4 original spacers I have used my water pump pulleys on my 409’s. The spacers clearly make the 2 pulleys fit better ( I recently reviewed the spacer fit and application for another member here and confirmed it’s use from 3 original sets of water pump pulleys and my 2 - 409’s.
The 2 pulleys you listed 3724816 & 3713974 are 348/409 pulleys I had and have had to compare. All the correct upper pulleys are 7 & 1/8 inches
Paul