solenoid/starter question

[bobs409]

Ok, here's the scenerio...

I have been having intermittent no start problems since day 1. (like heat soak but can happen anytime, any temp from ice cold to scalding hot) No click, nothing. The only thing that gets it going is to jump start it. Since this problem has worsened lately, I figured I toasted another solenoid so I put on a new Napa 'noid.

Now the starter barely turns over the engine. It will fight to crank and make revolution or two and stop. I tried looseing up on the starter bolts thinking maybe it was binding but that didn't help. Oh yeh, I ran a thick wire to the "S" terminal so we can rule out any bad wiring. This starter always turned nice and fast prior to this 'noid.

The question...can a bad solenoid make a starter turn slow? It is engaging fine but not turning fast like it used to. I had this starter tested about 2 years ago and it tested above normal specs. It only has about 7,000 miles on it too.

Im almost to the point of giving in and buying that $199 mini starter. While im on that, do those ever have that dreded heat soak problem? For that price, it better not!


Help!

 

[64ss409]

Bob

I have not had a solenoid cause a slow crank problem, although I suppose it could. Mine have either made connection, or not work at all.

Since it helps to jump it, it sounds more like you have a bad connection. Maybe where the ground strap attaches to the engine, like paint behind it. Bad connection at the battery terminals can act this way too.

Is the screw that connects the solenoid to the starter fields clean and tight? I am sure you checked it, just thinking......

Ron

 

[bobs409]

Ron,

Jump starting it would get it going when I had the "no start" problem. I haven't tried jumping it now with the slow start problem but shouldn't have to do that as it used to turn fine.

Everything is new, clean and tight. I have 3 new ground straps installed since day 1.

It did spin over nice before this solenoid. Im going to try putting an old solenoid on today. If it spins normal again, I'll assume the new 'noid is bad. If that's the case, you'll hear me later!

These starter problems really SUCK! I can't trust it to shut the car off anywhere. I've been buying gas in a can lately instead of shutting it off at a gas station. And trying to work on the starter with the custom headers is a real bear! : Sure glad I tested it before bolting the header back in.

 

[64ss409]

I know you are not having a heat soak problem with yours, but I ran into a problem that may be related if it is the solenoid.

I was using Borg-Warner solenoids on my 71K10 with 454 and headers which are real close to the starter. A new solenoid would not go a year without having the heat soak problem. I would have to lift the hood, hope there was a breeze, and sit and wait until it cooled. Then it would always start.

After 3 new solenoids, a neighbor said, "Try a Delco". Now I am not saying this Delco solenoid won't give me problems someday, but it has been in for 2 years and has always started when hot. So if you find the new solenoid is the problem, maybe Delco would be better. I usually use Delco, it is just not as easy to find. I am 80 miles from a city.

Ron

 

[bobs409]

Thanks Ron. I heard that Delco is good because they use a metal sleeve in theirs. I know that some solenoids have a metal sleeve and others what appears to be plastic. (probably not plastic but it has that appearance)

I checked all 3 of mine (yes, im on my 3rd!) and two have the metal and one made by "Standard" has the plastic looking one.

I'll let ya know what happens today after I do some swapping/testing.


Bob

 

[IgnitionMan]

Try connecting a starter button to the large top post and the S term, and see if it still does it. If it does, solenoid has a problem where it connects the two large posts inside the end cap, resistance, whatever. if not, wiring in the car is the problem, but since the problem only got worse since the new solenoid, I'd figure the posts/disk inside the soenoid are the problem.

 

[ElkyBob]

Starter Problems?

I'm sure you already checked, but some of these symptoms could also come from a bad battery. A simple solution, I agree, but it does happen. LOL.

 

[bobs409]

Thanks for the help guys but thankfully I just found the problem. Im a bit embarrased but it turns out it was the battery. Never suspected it.

You think everything is brand new on a car only to realize that 5 years went past! :eek: Where does the time go? I put it in my 72 Malibu and it wouldn't even crank a 307. It does have full voltage but not what it takes for cranking amps.


Now...I have a new question. Could this battery have been causing problems all along? From day 1, I had occasional no starts. I think I read on another website about someone with a similar problem and it turned out to be a bad cell or shorted cell or something. ?!? It would start the car ok sometimes and not others.

Oh yeh, I tested my old solenoid and it still works. New and old seem ok. hmmm. well, got a spare now.

Im all tickled pink again. I can put my car back together now. Im tired of looking at the bottom of it.

 

[bobs409]

Bob, ya snuck that one in while I was typing. Your correct!

Color my face red

 

[ElkyBob]

Cool, makes me feel good to be right on this site with all you guys, cuz I'm still a novice that happens to have experienced the battery problems. And yes, I'd say it could have been the battery all along, and at this point, we have to assume it was. Glad that fixed it.

 

[bobs409]

I hope it was the battery all this time. I love an easy fix but hate when it takes 5 years to find the problem. lol When I think of how many times I chased my tail trying to figure this out! :evil

One nice thing is it won't cost me anything because I decided to just use a battery from one of my other cars when I want to drive this one. I don't drive it much so it doesn't make any sense to keep a battery in it.

I used some colorful words above but you should have heard the ones coming from me in the garage! lol Dang, those headers are tight!!!

Well, bolt on the driveshaft and im done. And it better start!

 

[bobs409]

I put it through it's paces and it started everytime so far. Im happier than a pig in slop! LOL

Gonna be a while until I build up enough trust to shut it off away from home but so far so good.

 

[ss409cid]

Dont ya just hate it when ya dont know if it is going to restart, but you have to stop for gas. And how embarrising is it to have that nice clean garage kept 409...click....click at the gas station.....Thank God for jumper boxes.....SS

 

[bobs409]

Yes, I sat at a gas station for about an hour once because of it. Not very pleasant. After that, I would carry a spare battery in the trunk with cables so I could jump start it myself.

 

[IgnitionMan]

My 2.8 V6 S10 does the same thing, is OK for years, then, starts to do the "timing too far advanced" thing, but otherwise OK. Then one time trying to start it, nothing, dead city, new battery time, without notice.

I had this happen in one day, everything good, no indication of any problems, shut it down go do things, come back 5 hours later, key, turn, dead city, battery time. Happens to all of us, Bob.