Looking for additional direction down the 1/8 mile.

[1964SuperStocker]

I have a 1964 2 door Sedan belair I'm working to get into nostalgia drag racing. I have had this car for about 20 years. I'm only 38 and this was just a parts car back when I was in highschool. I've dreamed of having a Z11 ever since I bought my first car (1963 impala 2dr hdtp )at 16 (and I still have it too). The 63' is rough but it was my big test to prove to my dad that I would really put the work into it. I stripped it down to shell and frame in 2 weeks while going to school, play sports, and working. Long story short I know every nut and bolt on the 63-64 cars including my 64' impala convertible I currently own as well. (unfortunately I just found a rust free 63 hardtop that I will be buying for next to nothing in the next couple weeks.)
So I have been doing my homework on what it will take to run with the nostalgia guys. I won't be throwing big money at this adventure but I have a pretty good start already.
Ultimately I want the fresh off the drag strip in the early 60's look.
Specs so far are:
-348 stroked to a 434 with forged internals. ( I went the 454 crank route and only have 10.5/1 icon forged pistons.) I had Midstates Machine here in Des Moines Iowa put the 434 bottom end together since they are one of the few guys that have 409 experience around here. Plus my 64' convertible has a sweet 355 built by them from 15 years ago and its still running strong so talk to John and Bill if you need some motor work done.
-I don't know what I'm doing for heads or an intake yet.
-I hate anything but Holley (its what I know how to build) but have been told I would need to be running afb or Carter style carbs for old-school reasons.
-Billet distributor only so far, will need some additional ignition assistance.
-cam is COMP 1800-5800. Nothing to aggressive yet. Quick change cover to switch later.
-aluminum water pump.
-aluminum radiator.
-electric fans
-exhaust will have to be whatever headers are cheapest. ("you weld" look good for the money plus I can weld pretty good.) I'll switch hoods and run straight pipes out the hood if need be. (wouldn't look right)
-I'll likely be running a 700R4 I had beefed up to take the punishment. (could change my mind but not likely) No trans-brake and does have over drive. Shortened drive shaft.
-9" ford with 31 spline axles. 370 posi for street and 471 spool for the strip. Will change to different gears based upon performance. 5 foot long torq arms to keep the power where it belongs. I'm thinking dual adjustable shocks front and rear so I can dial this thing in when needed.
-suspension will be stockish. I want the nose high stance and low tail like the early Super stock guys had. Needs a rear sway bar set up.
-Wheels/Tires I'll run plain steel rims front and back but one set will be chrome. Front tires will have wide white wall tires. Back tires will be as big as I can squeeze under the car. Picked up a set of 64' dog dishes recently which will get some use on the street.
-interior will be stock in appearance. RED
-exterior will be stock for the most part. WHITE (Having trouble finding side chrome for the car. ANY HELP THERE WOULD BE GREAT!)
-bumpers will be fiberglass and front clip might get the same treatment with a deck lid too.
-Power nothing on the car.
-brakes have been set up for line lock. (still running drums) Disc upgrade will be after the car is on the road with the new motor.

My biggest question is what top end combo should I go with? Cast 690's with some work are good but for the price I can probably save a little more and go with aluminum heads. The car will get street time but strip time will be the main focus. I live just minutes away from work and don't mind running 93 octane to get me there in style.
I work at a classic car hotrod shop so I am used to old cars every day. Its not just a hobby its my lively hood, driving such a machine to and from work only feels right.

I just need some direction on what top end motor parts to get and which ones to avoid. I nearly put stock 348 heads/intake on to get by this summer but decided I would hate knowing that they are so restrictive and figured I could wait until this winter to put something I would truely enjoy next spring.

 

[1961BelAir427]

First off :

What ET/MPH are you shooting for? Both initially and ultimately.

If you are serious about it being a mostly strip car, don't bother with the mild Comp Cam and go straight for a rowdy solid roller. It's what you'll end up with so you may as well spend the money once. Of course if you already have the mild cam then that's different.

Where are you located and what Sanctioning Body's Nostalgia rules would you have to follow. Can you post up the rules?
I have heard many different things about what's allowed and what's not. The general consensus is that if it has a W under the hood and looks close to period correct you'll be fine.

Painted steelies with poverty caps look great, but instead of going with 2 sets of those, I'd have my 2nd set be a lightweight racing wheel. Your engine will be able to turn those much easier than a wide pair of steel wheels and your front end will be able to lift a pair of light skinnies easier too. You can drop 80+ pounds of rotating weight there.

For an affordable ignition box out of what is now available I like the MSD Digital 6 (part # 6520). I prefer the Mallory Hyfire6 (part # 685) but I think it got cut when MSD bought Mallory. With either of those you have several nice features such as 2 rev limiters, no "pills" required to change settings, start retard which is good with locked timing or high compression, and a 2nd retard that's handy for people that use giggle juice.
Alternately a rebranded MSD box sold by Summit under their name would save you a few more bucks and is the same thing. It's not a rip-off MSD box, but a real deal bought in bulk by Summit with their label on it.

Mike (user ID 58Delivery) can fix you up with a great disc brake kit. He sells them at prices as good as anyone's and he KNOWS these cars and his products. You wouldn't just be buying from someone random.

You don't need the 5' long traction bars, but if you want them just for looks that's cool. Don't forget a rollbar or cage. Those aren't safe on the street unless you wear a helmet everywhere.

PLEASE don't run the 700r4. They are great street transmissions, but I have only seen a few that held up reliably at the track and those had big $$$ spent on them. Even then they are a weak link. If staying automatic, a well built TH350 or TH400 would be great. Powerglides are cool, but not as well suited to our heavy cars unless your making 800+ HP and having traction problems. If you run a longtail version of either of the above you can run a shorter driveshaft. Use a good 10" - 3500+ rpm stall convertor at a minimum.

You don't mention fuel supply. I ran a fuel cell for a few years and always hated the hassle of opening the trunk and dealing with all that crap. I took my old stock tank and cleaned it out with soapy water, blew it dry, and took it to a friend to have two - 1/2" NPT bungs welded into the bottom right corner. With the shape of our tanks I figure it will always be covered unless I run it too low. I put a filter on the old pickup line and use it for a vent. It's worked so far. I suppose that you could stuff some fuel cell foam down in there to help out.

Check out Bob Walla's BWR cylinder heads. (user ID: Region Rat) He has them both with 690 sized ports and also has them with raised runners. They are available in as-cast form or fully CNC'd. I think he also has a tunnel ram in the works???

Another member here has partnered with a machine shop (forgive me if I have the details wrong Brian) and they will soon have parts available. A complete Z11 top end package as well as a single plane dual quad intake to fit 690 style heads. Holleys fit on it. They have already cast the first models so production pieces will be for sale soon.

Hang on and enjoy the ride!

 

[No409]

sounds like a cool project. i thought most n/ss cars have to run a carter or edelbrock. i have the walden intake, but ive been toying with the idea of making my car a NHRA stocker, and going with the 400hp 409 intake( on my car now). i agree with Jason, th350/ good converter. My personal preference is a stick. Got some pics of your 63? you sound like me, i bought mine @ 16yrs old, and gonna be 37 in a month. good luck with what ever you decide, gonna be a cool project. I would also put a ford f600 scoop on it.

 

[Dr Richard Kimble]

nice project , new guy

 

[63 dream'n]

Welcome to the site...........there are many members here that give expert advice...........from first hand knowledge, you've come to the right place.

 

[jim_ss409]

Welcome to the site.
It sounds like you've got a pretty good plan there. I think the car will look great with the old school look.

I guess the first thing you've got to figure out is,,, how quick do you want this car to be.
If I remember right, you can go as quick as 11.50 (1/4 mile) without needing to add a roll bar. That makes for a pretty nice drag car that can also be streetable enough for some cruising around from time to time.
You can probably run 11.50's with about 525 hp.
You can get there pretty easily with either a set of factory high performance or aluminum heads.

Here's a link to a 650 hp 437 ci engine that started out as a 348.
It has some exotic parts and isn't exactly what most guys would call streetable, but it does give you an idea of what can be done.
http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/hrdp-0911-chevy-w-series-engine-build/

If you aim for somewhere around 500 to 550 hp you can build a very reliable engine with good street manners.

We've even got a few guys on here making around 475 hp with ported truck heads, so that's another way you can go. (truck heads are cheap)

 

[Jim Sullivan]

Welcome to this great site. Lots of knowledgeable guys here. Good luck on your build.

 

[1961BelAir427]

And if you think the 650 horse 348 stroker was just a dyno number for a magazine article - Jim & his partner who is also named Jim bought the thing from Joe Sherman and ran it in their '55 Gasser. It ran very low 10's before the cam went bad and caused some damage.



Have a look around on the Projects and the Racing Days sections on here and you can find some very detailed build-ups. There are guys on here who have been racing these cars longer than I've been alive.......and there are many more with way more experience than I have.

I know that my planned suspension mods were toned way down after seeing what cab be done with basic bolt on suspension parts, strategic bracing, and good tuning.

 

[Iowa 409 Guy]

Welcome Randy..........come on in............

I met Randy a couple of weeks ago at Eddyville Drag Strip. He talked about his interest in our old iron and was interested in my car and NSS racing. He has some neat cars. As he said, he is looking to build something to race and drive on the street. He also said his wife is on board with this program.................I may have bugged him some to join the site........

Lots of info and ideas here..........good folks.

 

[cjkuenster]

Welcome Randy----I`ll give you some of my 2 cents---I`m from Wisconsin--I run Nostalgia Super Stock with a group out of Des Moines, Ia. We have to run carter or eldy. carbs--no holley`s---No eltronics except a 2 step if you are running a stick---Some of the guys are right----No roll bar if you keep it under 11.50---With our group the max you can run 9.00 flat no faster and 13.00 on the bottom end---we run quarter second indexes in stead of half second ones---The name of the group is Victory Nostalgia Super Stocks---Right now their is around 60 members----We race at Cordova---Eddyville---Byron----St. Louis----Indy----We have had races at Earlville and Cedar Falls also---Great bunch of people to race with and party with----Back to the cars---It don`t take much of a motor to run in the 12`s---I have 2 cars running with this group----59 Elcamino and 59 Impala----The Elky had a all 09 motor board 090 over with a 6-30 lift solid flat tap. cam that when it was new ran 11.59----I finally tore it down this winter---Had only 600 pass on it---I think its over due---I our group---The largest tire you can run is a 10. in a half W.---wish you won`t need----My Impala runs in the middle 10`s with a 9 inch tire---I`f you are interest and want to call me----Cel# 608 778 2627---Easyier fo me to talk on the phone----I`m only 75 and easier for me on phone---not the best on these computters---Hope I help a little----Cheese Man Charlie

 

[k9hotrodder409]

Welcome to the site. In your next post it would be nice to know your real name. Hey You !!! doesn't work around here.
Lots of info on the "W" engine..Great group here
Get In , strap yourself in , Keep your arms and legs inside the car at all times , Hold on and enjoy the ride.

 

[1964SuperStocker]

Randy is the name as stated by some of the others before. I've been busy at work guys so give me another couple of weeks and I'll really get going here. I have a wedding coming up in April so its taking most of my time right now. We are settled in our new house in DesMoines. Now I've been busy in the garage getting it organized. Can't work on my car if I can't find tools or parts. 50% is done now I'm pushing to get the rest done by the end of the month. Once into Feb. the push to get the car on the road/track will really kick in. I've got a great start with the bottom end being completed. (I'll get you guys some pictures) The next big step is the top end. The best Cam, heads, intake I can get my hands on. I don't know anything about carbs except the Holley's so going with anything else will be painful because I just don't know enough about them and will have to trust someone else to do it for me. I have a small pile of Carters but again they don't say, look like, or act like most Holley's. I really want to fab up an intake for my 1000cfm dominator but that just isn't going to happen.

One thing no one seems to talk much about is power to weight ratio. Why build more power when you can do more with less when you weigh less. Just a thought I'm going to work towards. Thanks for all of the support guys, I have some studying and planning to do! I'm going to get my trusty slide rule out and see what kind of fun I can come up with.

 

[cjkuenster]

Randy----First thing you have to decide if you want to put a roll bar in or not??????? If you do not-----Don`t worry about your power to weight ratio-----It don`t take much of a motor to run in the 12`s----remember most N/SS groups have to run 2x4`s--Cast models only----No sheet metal intakes-----Don`t be afraid of the Edelbrocks Carbs---They are just about 100% trouble free----I raced Holley`s for about 40 yrs and know them real good but have to run edelbrocks now----Its a lot harder to get 2 holleys to come out of the hole nice and clean verus the eldy`s-----Most groups with the 59-64 X--Frame Cars have to run Carter---Edelbrocks only----Personal ---- you could get me to go back to holley`s----The Edelbrocks come out of the hole nice and clean in a heavy car every time----Trany--350 or 400---with a 3000 or 3500 stall wil get you in the program will easy---Good luck at the wedding