Drag Race results

[dq409]

Well the first time out with the `62 and had a Blast and found out what needs work!! ME!! LOL !
First time racing where I had to wear a helmet. And let me tell you it changes everything! You change from relying on sound and sight to only the feel from the seat of your pants and a very narrow sight line. I think once I get used to it it will be better in the long run as you have less to concentrate on. Meaning just the light and shifting.
Times we consistant in the 13.7 -13.8 range @ just under 102 MPH.
Once I get the launch down the the times should improve. I was trying to figure the launch to avoid the bog off the line. I have the secondary vacuum flappers removed from the carbs.Might have to put them back in.
The tricky part was having enough RPM to avoid the bog and not too much to break the tires loose.
The last pass I did my best launch only to loose traction in an oil slick(left by some ricer) just at the shift to second. WHAT a wild feel that was,,,I thought I broke the rear !! Just as I hit second it felt like I hit nuetral !! Thank god for the rev limit on the 6-AL !!!! LET UP and STABBED It again !! Just like a PRO !! heee heeee
The car hooks great and with a few tweeks here and there (me included) this will get better.
On my second pass I was up againt this shoe box Nova,,,sounded beefy but not radical. BOY was I wrong!!!
When he launched I almost Filled my pants !!!! LOL !! REALLY !!
All I could see and think about was this streak of white BLASTING down the track !!! Getting smaller and smaller!!
I darned near forgot to shift !! "O" YAH,,,I`m here to race not watch !!! LMSOAO !!!
The early nite was filled with many FAST american cars but as the nite grew so did the ricers. Thats cool though ,,,,,,alot of them checked out the `62 with thumbs up and wonderment!
Problem is,,,,,,,,,I GOT THE BUG BIG TIME!!!!! THE NEED FOR MORE SPEED !!!
I`ll finish the `62 so it`s dialed in and most likely won`t go too much past that. That way it will be a great street ride with a good overall use.
I think I`ll save the coil-overs for my Rambler,,,,,
THAT will be my butt rocket!!! The plan for the 10 sec street pro-stocker!!!!
All in all it was a great nite and I know what needs to be done. Not really too much just make it all work,,,,,,dq

 

[tripowerguy]

Isn't it adictive? Last year I went to a nostalgia race and was up against a 64 Chevy II, I have no idea what engine or how he got in my class. Anyway it was bracket style and I was off and I kept looking in my mirror for him to launch. I was halfway down the track before he unloaded, I thought that I had that race won. He went by me in the lights at 128 mph. :eek: Roy

 

[Dond409]

Dq,
I'm surprised! I figured your car to be a solid 12 second car. What was your 60 foot time? My extra heavy wagon ran a 13.096 at almost 105. Something sounds amiss. I don't have a roller cam in mine either. I had the 3.55's in the rear too. : I had a pretty loose converter in it then. I haven't run it since I put the tighter converter in.

 

[dq409]

I figured it would be to,,,,Don`t know what to say....other then I need to figure out how to make it launch better. I my have to change the cam timing. Got any answers,,,I`m listening,,,
60 ft at 2.24 ,,,,,,,dq


dond,,,what was your stall

 

[jim_ss409]

I think those times are really good for first time out. With a bit of work on the launch etc. you will only get faster too.
Dond, those times with that wagon are outstanding. Let us know what kind of setup you're running, cam, compression, cubic inches?

 

[CDNpontiac409guy]

That's Strange ?

DQ... I'm a little surprised too. I honestly expected that you, down at sea level there, would run a high 12 @ around 108.
With all that frame stuff on your car, I'd be curious to roll it over a scale.

To me, your 60 ft time isn't the real issue. It's the speed through the traps. At sea level, 102 MPH is not enough. You should be seeing near 108. I mean, YES, the automatic DOES cost a bit... but not 6 MPH... MAYBE 2.
My Belair use to do a 2.4 60 ft on stock wheels & tires... but my corrected time/speed at sea level was 12.85 @ 113 MPH.
It's the SPEED, DQ, that has me wondering.
Did you run open headers ?

 

[Dond409]

My engine biography

I'm running basically the same as dq. .060 Venolia 11 to 1 pistons,three angle valve job on stock port 690 heads, Hooker competition headers 1 3/4 to a 3 inch collector. Here's where it gets different. I had comp cams custom grind the cam. .603 intake, .613 exhaust. Duration at .050 236 intake and 242 exhaust. Cam is installed at 110 intake centerline. With a Dyna roller timing set. I also use a cam buttom. There is no trick stuff in the block. Just your basic rebuild. .002 to .0025 on the mains and rods. A melling high volume small block oil pump. A stock 409 oil pan and windage tray. ARP studs on the main caps. I did have the block align honed. I have roller rockers, but no roller lifters. I had the push rods custom made to keep the geometry right. Valve springs are triples 128lbs on the seat and 300 something at full lift. I have a MSD crank trigger that runs through a MSD timing computer. The spark comes from a gutted 409 distributor. Timing is set a 34 total in by 3000 with champion spark plugs gapped at .045. I have a stock 409 dual four manifold with dual edelbrock 600 carbs purchased from Curt Harvey already set up with 1 inch open spacers. I have never taken the tops off or played with the metering rods. I use the stock progressive linkage set up to pull the second carb in when the primary carbs secondaries open. The transmission at that time was just a light duty turbo 350 with a shift kit. The converter was a 3000 stall behind a sbc. Behind the 409 it flashed to 4200. I have a single upper arm rear suspension. 3.55's with a set of 215-75 x 15 Yokohama street tires.
The day I went to the strip it was rather cool. I got there and unloaded the car. Took the exhaust off the car. I never even checked the tire pressures. I knew that coming out of the hole was going to be a problem. So I brought it up on the converter to about 2000 rpm. I didn't mash it, I kinda drove it out easy. 2.007 60 foot. Shifted each gear at around 6800, and it ran the 13.096 @ 104.87.
The next run they switched to 1/8 mile, I guess some of the faster cars were getting blown around. Well anyway forgot all about my starting line procedure. Blew the tires off it 2.4 something 60 foot and 8.724 That was it for the day. It looked very much like rain. So I loaded up and left.
I wanted to go last year, but I just never got there. I have a better transmission a 3000 stall converter, and a somewhat better tire. I wanted to get it in the 12's. Maybe this year.
Sorry for the long post. The more I thought about the more stuff came to mind. There is still probably stuff I left out. Anymore questions just ask.

 

[dq409]

Dond,,,Thanks for the info !!
I would be interested in what your secondary jets are. Thats one thing I`m redoing again. Changed them several time before installing the trigger dist. I also will add the 1" spacers until I can afford the big buck intake!
If I use the water box it launches like crazy as soon as it clears the water ! Wish I had it on video ,,,,
This is what makes me think of cam timimg,,,to get a little more bottom end.
A little more stall would help too.
I also redline at 6400 ,,,,and try shifting sooner.
And No.....I was running full exhaust... PIR has a view that drag racing is low on their list,,,,if something needs to be canceled or moved it`s the drag racers,,,,,
I will try and go to Woodburn but they have a muffler rule too unless you hit a big event with a variance for open headers.
I am thinking about adding some kind of trap exhaust setup off the collector though.
If nothing else it looks impressive !! LOL ! Now just to figure what that extra second is.(Nitrous)
OZ, I did take it over the scales and it read 4000 LBS.,,,,dq

 

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Very nice, DonD !
Now THAT'S a combination... and, I see you run with the "torque isn't everything" attitude too !!!
But.... 3.55 gears ?
You must have barely been in high gear when you went through the traps ?
Maybe 5000 RPM ?
I have an extra set of 4.56's here ! !

DQ... have you checked what your rear gear is ?

 

[dq409]

OZ,,,They are 4.11`s and I went through the traps at 6000+,,,,
What would 4.56`s do?????
Should I consider changing the cam to a higher RPM solid with less spring pressure ????
,,,,dq

 

[Dond409]

gears

CPG, thanks for the offer on the gears, but I already have a set of 4.56's. Also have a set of 4.88's. And yes I shifted just before the lights. It went through at around 5200. I mostly street drive the car. I did have the 4.56's in when I first put the 409 in, but the mileage was killing me. Switching to the 3.55's doubled the gas mileage. I'm looking at a 200r4 transmission and converter, so I can run a 4.10 set up and still get somewhat good mileage. I do like Dq, I mix racing gas with Ultra 94. So that it lives without pinging. As far as the secondary jetting goes it is whatever Curt put in it. I also have the Edelbrock carb with the electric choke. Overall I'm pretty happy with this engine, but I would still like more. CPG and I talked about a different stroke and rod length combo in the old chatroom one night. So that's what I might build next. I have a set of not so good shape 583 heads that I would love to get ported. The exhaust ports especially need help and maybe a set of bigger tube headers too. I would love to try that intake that Dq will be getting. All in the quest of more POWER.

 

[jim_ss409]

Dond, That's obviously a good running engine to push that wagon as fast as it does. Lots of lift on that cam. DQ's setup is very similar even the cam specs are fairly close except for the roller part. So I'm thinking that DQ's car should make similar times once it's sorted out.
I put a 200-4R in a 64 impala behind a 409 but if I was doing it again I might try a 700-R4. I had put a 200 in a Chevelle and it was an easy job. The driveshaft fit, the mount was the same as a 400 so it lined right up, very easy. But in the Impala the early powerglide was shorter so I had to shorten the driveshaft and the mount had to be moved back about 4'' or so which is hard on the X frame car. The mount on the 700 R4 is almost in the same place as the powerglide, close enough that you might not even have to move the mount. Slotting the holes might be enough. Also the 700-R4 is longer so it would make going to a one-piece driveshaft more feasable. Eather way it's important to get the rear of the transmission sitting just right or you will get a vibration at higher speeds with the two piece driveshaft. What I did was measure the position of the tailshaft of the old trans before I pulled it so that I could get the new trans. in the right place. Well close, I still had to use shims. A place called Shiftworks has the linkages and stuff to hookup to the counsel floorshift but I doubt you have a counsel in your wagon, I 'm just adding that for the benefit of others that might be considering the swap. One more thing, the shift governors on the OD transmissions are set way too low, usually about 4,000 or less at full throttle, but you can get higher RPM ones from places like B&M or Art Carr.

 

[dq409]

Well I`ve been doing some reading and learned a few things.
First off spring pressure has nothing to do will RPM or RPM resistance. Each spring cancels it self out. ie: opening spring (high resistance) is canceled by closing spring (low resistance).
So sping pressure is not the cause.
I also looked at my cam card again and for some reason was using the old cam valve float RPM which is much lower. I should be able to get 600 or more RPM shift point. I`ll test this next time ,,shifting at different RPM`s. This should take some time off ET.
1' open spacers will be added and I`m looking at adding Super Traps at the collectors and bypassing the full exhaust system and adding a couple flanges to the system so complete removal (weight loss) with be a snap.
This is a photo of the Super Trapp Disc set-up that would bolt to the collectors.,,,,dq

 

[dq409]

cam spec card

And my cam card,,,dq

 

[Fathead Racing]

RPM at big end

I have been trying to calculate your speed and rpm figures as you gave them, something did not seem right to me. If you are running 4.11s and are in top gear which would be a ratio of 1:00 and (here I am guessing) have a tire diameter of say 27.5 @ 6000 rpm+ you should be running close to 120 mph????? Whats up?:

 

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Fat..... I think DQ's tires would be lower than that. About 26.5 with the deflection at the tread.
AND....
It's an automatic !!!!!!
HEE HEE HEE !!!
Under hard load, about 200-400 of wasted RPM !
Tach could be "exagerating" a bit too.

 

[Fathead Racing]

Tires

Wow I'm running 255/60R15s and I think their a 27" tire. Is dq runnig 14"s? Seems like he should still be turning more mph with that rpm! I was turning around 5000 rpm through the traps with this tire auto tranny in 3rd 4.11s @ 92.4 mph. At this rate I would be turning 111 through the traps at 6000 rpm.

 

[dq409]

I`m STILL BURNING RUBBER AT THE TRAP !!!! heee heee
WHAT GIVES???? You tell me !!

 

[CDNpontiac409guy]

HORSEPOWER, DQ.... you're not using it.
Need to shift that thing at around 6600-6800 RPM, with open headers.

With that automatic, and shifting at 5800-6000, the drop in RPM is pulling the engine well below it's max torque. I'd expect from the specs on your engine, with open headers, that peak torque would be at around 4600. During a pass, that engine should NEVER see less than about 4400... or even a bit higher.

Also, did you check your plugs ? It's tricky. As you pass the traps, drop the trans in neatral ( should ALWAYS do that anyhow )... let the engine fall to an idle on it's own for a few seconds, then shut it off. Don't start it again until you have inspected a couple random spark plugs.
You don't want them white. Need to see a nice even light tan colour.
And about jetting.
I guess I've been lucky... but if I was bolting on an unknown combination, I would be inclined to start out "fat". Then lean back a couple steps at a time. This CAN be done on the street... Obviously in an appropriate location:

If this fails to provide you with the expected ( and rightfully so ) horsepower ( read that, "Speed at the end of the 1/4" )....
You can buy my rebuilt 2.43 1st gear Super T10 !.... and help me pay for my $3000 Jeroco !

 

[dq409]

JEZZZZZZZZZ,,,,Thanks man,,,,,,,If I were to go manual,,,,,,you`d be installing THAT Jerry for me !!!! LOL !!
I`ll try that,,,What an idiot I am,,,,When I reread my cam card I filled my pants AGAIN !! seem to be doing that alot lately !!
Super Trapps and that Line-Loc I ordered today should help !!