First 409

[Impala62]

I’m not sure if I’m in the right place to ask this but here I go. Aluminum heads are not in the budget now but would be in the future. What would I do with the bottom end to make it durable enough for future upgrades? Things like SC’s 4 bolt main caps, h beam rods and what ever else might be needed or not needed? Plan on roller hydraulic lifters for this time around already. Cam choice would maybe be compromised? Any suggestions other than do it all now? I’m too old to get a divorce at this point. It is what it is as most of us know .
Thanks
Phil

 

[Don Jacks]

Hi Phil.4 bolt mains are an unnecessary additional expense unless all out racing and even then debateable.Yes on the good rods.Forged pistons a must.If you can budget it,go with a 4 inch stroker kit.Build your compression to no more than 10.5. I know of a Lunati grind that would be a good streetable combo with either head..With mildly ported Bob Walla heads,a Mc Quillian intake, 1 7/8 hooker headers,this cam[231 in.,239 ex. at .050.600 lift110 lobe seperation.106 lobe cenrerline,made 558 hp at 5400,613 ft.lbs of torque at 4100 rpm.The kkeys are good mchine work,and quality parts[ARP bolts,ect.]You could use the bottom end upgrades,improved 817 heads and the cam as stage 1,then upgrade to the heads and intake later.

 

[Impala62]

That would be a Scat kit?

 

[Don Jacks]

Yes

 

[Impala62]

Is there a preferred Kit for the 409? I see a 472 ci kit. Seems kinda large.

Thanks
Phil

 

[La Hot Rods]

Personal I don't think the 4 inch stroke is the best for these 409. I would use a 396/427 stroke crank.

 

[Impala62]

For someone who restores cars but leaves the engine building to the professionals this is getting confusing. Th Scat web site is really geared to those who know what they want. Anyone have a part number for them that is suitable? Preferably a balanced kit.
Thanks
Phil

 

[Impala62]

After much thought I have decided to build this car for me instead of selling it and starting another project. That being said I have always wanted a hot rod and I think this is the right platform for me. I’m not so schooled in the power train area. I know the basics but not the details. I plan on two stages. First is bottom end and getting the car on the road again and later adding aluminum heads. This spreads the cost out and keeps me busy for a while. Because of my engine experience I need guidance there to get this project started. Body work and paint will be last instead of first on this one. Although it’s not a matching numbers car it will be my car for a change. My doctor suggests I have adult attention deficit disorder and he may be right so please have patience as I work through this. So far everyone has been great!

Thanks
Phil

 

[Croshd]

Hello Everyone

Sorry to jump in like this but I’m new to this whole thing so please forgive if I stepped on anyone’s toes. But I have a 63 SS with 4 speed I looking for a Harrison 4 core for it. I took mine in to get clean and they replace the core with a 3 core. The trouble I am having now is the water is following to fast through it and can’t cool it now. They told me no one make the old style cores any more and the had to use the 3 core. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Chris

 

[Jim Sullivan]

Hello Everyone

Sorry to jump in like this but I’m new to this whole thing so please forgive if I stepped on anyone’s toes. But I have a 63 SS with 4 speed I looking for a Harrison 4 core for it. I took mine in to get clean and they replace the core with a 3 core. The trouble I am having now is the water is following to fast through it and can’t cool it now. They told me no one make the old still cores any more and the had to use the 3 core. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Chris

Are you using a thermostat? If so, what temperature is it rated at? The reason I ask is a thermostat will provide a restriction, slowing the coolant flow. Also, what ratio of water to antifreeze? Too much antifreeze won't dissipate the heat as well. Are you running a fan shroud? What fan are you running, with or without a clutch?

 

[Impala62]

What jim said. The thermostat determines how fast the water flows and the shroud and clutch fan cools the coolant. Too loose a clutch will also cause problems.

 

[Don Jacks]

Hi Phil,The last I heard,the Scat kits were unbalanced and required a ''small amount'' of Mallory metal to balance.That may have changed.Someone like Murphdog may have a more current answer.You asked me aabout the Lunati cam.You'''ll need to call Lunati and ask them to apply this part number[ 70110712LUN ] to a W cam blank.This is a routine proceedure for them.Use the valve springs and retainers recommended for the big block if you're using 3/8 [stock size] valve stems. You'll need to have the valve spring pockets in the heads machined to fit.Youshould also have the valve guide bosses machined for valve sten seals while you're at it,as well as pull the studes andd machine for screw in studs.

 

[Impala62]

Thanks Don. I’m in way over my head on this. Wondering now if I should stay with the stock crank but by the time I buy new rods and pistons I’m not that far from a stroker kit anyway. Bowl work and port matching is done. Large intake valves are ordered from SC. There is a lot more to this than I realized as far as the stroker kit goes. If I stroke it, the heads would get changed
later. I hate to invest too much there at this time. The Scat kit can be purchased balanced according to the guy I talked to but of course the pistons are .068 over requiring my block to be opened up. Still doing research trying to get better educated. I’m a body and chassis guy. Not an engine guy. This is giving me brain freeze.

 

[Barry Taylor]

Even if you buy a ballanced kit you still have to add the harmonic balancer and a flywheel or flexplate to the equation and any respectable engine shop is going to check and or balance the motor! Pretty much the same cost plus any heavy metal.The difference between stock stroke and a 4” stroke is night and day regardless of what heads you have on it. JMO

 

[Impala62]

That’s why I can’t give up on the stroker. There really is no substitute for cubic inches. What you mentioned above is the type of thing that’s making my brain hurt. I just don’t know everything that is required. I am running a four speed so fly wheel not flex plate. Is the entire rotating assembly sent of for balancing? My harmonic balancer has no weights or drill outs nor the flywheel so everything now is internally balanced? A stroker will be different? Does the block have to be clearances? Scat told me i could buy a balanced kit. Does more balancing need to be done? Forgive my ignorance but all my restorations have been stock rebuilds. I want this 62 Impala to be mine and above average.

Thanks
Phil

 

[Murphdog]

Not sure where you are looking at a Scat "kit". If Scat is offering it they should be able to provide it balanced. As Barry said, their job will not include the damper & flywheel. After the crank is balanced, which this will be an "internal" balance job, then I install the damper & flywheel onto the crank & spin again and make any small correction they need if any. Would strongly recommend the 4" Scat crank & 6.385 rods. easy peasy balance job. Might need 1 or 2 small pieces of heavy metal. I can help with a crank & rods if interested.
Jeff

 

[Impala62]

Murphdog,
Do you balance these yourself? Are you saying you can supply the crank and rods or just the balancing? Would these pistons be available at Show cars or elsewhere off the shelf? I want 10:1- 10.5:1 for pump gas. Sorry I’m still nothing but questions at this point. Trying to keep it simple for me. Want to spend the money in the right place. A 409 build is not for the faint of heart.

Thanks
Phil

 

[Murphdog]

I would balance in house. PM sent.
Jeff

 

[Impala62]

Your website? What would a rotating assembly cost me that’s ready to install? I’m on somewhat of a budget but am flexible. I could send flywheel and damper to you. Damper may need replacing, it’s the original I assume. Do you assemble engines as well? Mo. is a long ways from here so likely would assemble here. Been a long time since I assembled one but have the measuring equipment. Was a machinist years ago. Just retired from Valmet, a machine shop for the paper industry. Biggest lathe has 8’ faceplate and 50’ bed. Crane capacit’s is 90 tons. Shaping metal is a great way to make a living but you already know that.

Thanks
Phil

Sent from my iPhone

 

[Murphdog]

Give me a little time to put together a plan with $ figures. If you have a stock damper, yes it probably needs replaced. There is a place that can rebuild them but unless it is a factory HP damper and you want to retain the look I would just go with a new part. I have those also.
Thanks