First 409

[Impala62]

Hello to all. I have been restoring cars as a hobby for years and always wanted a 409. The opportunity came up when a 62 SS four speed car came available with a 64 340 hp engine. The engine was something of a gamble knowing nothing about it. After pulling the heads I discovered a disturbing mix of parts. I have one piston that doesn’t match the rest and a mix of stainless and non stainless valves. The heads are 817 castings. In addition it appears a valve was dropped in #4 cylinder causing some damage to the head. Bores are .06 over and measure on the money and apparently have been bored and honed but the engine never started. I can see that these engines are different from what I am used to. I am unaware of anyone in my area familiar with these engines. I usually leave the engine building to the local engine builder but in this case I may have to be the expert. I need educating. Thinking of keeping this one for myself and would like 400 or so hp on pump gas and do occasionally have problems with the right foot getting heavy. I will be looking at the bottom end this week to see what I have there. What resources are available out there and where would I find another head if the damaged one has to be replaced? I am in Aiken SC . Maybe too much for an introduction but I have always had a soft spot for the early Impalas and would like to see this one returned to it former glory.
Thanks for allowing my introduction
Phil

 

[327]

 

[Impala62]

Thanks for the welcome. I struggle with these types of boards. I am severely technically challenged . It will take me time to learn how to use this resource. At 63 I’m a dinosaur. Guess that’s why I stick to the old cars.
Thanks
Phil

 

[Barry Taylor]

Welcome Phil! Sounds like you’ve got some good bones to start with! Not many questions you could have about these cars and there motors that can’t be answered on this website! Take some pictures of the car cause we love pictures!

 

[64ss409]

Welcome to the forum. As mentioned above, we like to see photos.

 

[Impala62]

The car is solid. Someone painted it but shouldn’t have. I will repaint after the motor is sorted. Gentleman restoring it passed away to I have lots of new parts but also missing lots of parts. Nothing I’m not used to. Never seen the inside of a 409 and was surprised at what I saw. Here are some pictures. I don’t have a computer believe it or not so everything is in my cell. Like I said, dinosaur.

 

[327]

 

[Impala62]

After pulling the pan I confirmed whoever put this thing together put two of the piston/rod assemblies in the wrong holes. So far machine work looks okay . Crank is marked.02/.02. Motor was never ran after assembly so hopefully that part is good. A moron assembled it. Mismatched valves and one oddball piston .

 

[Jeffrey Osstyn]

You are going in the right direction, complete disassembly and check everything!
It's a learning curve.

 

[Murphdog]

Welcome Phil,
Well, you have a "car" block, fresh bored .060. I would probably verify the bore and piston clearance. The 1 odd out piston may be a challenge to replace with one matching the others. As long as the "damaged" head has good seats and will pass mag & pressure test I would use it. Bottom crank pulley looks to be a 70/80's SBC part. Sounds like you are on track, VERIFY everything.
Jeff

 

[Impala62]

Will finish tearing down today or tomorrow and get out the mics. Was a machinist so inspecting the parts is not a problem. Had planned on replacing the pistons anyway. I assume they determine compression on these things? Okay with spending some money, just want to put it in the right places.
Thanks

 

[Croshd]

Hello to all. I have been restoring cars as a hobby for years and always wanted a 409. The opportunity came up when a 62 SS four speed car came available with a 64 340 hp engine. The engine was something of a gamble knowing nothing about it. After pulling the heads I discovered a disturbing mix of parts. I have one piston that doesn’t match the rest and a mix of stainless and non stainless valves. The heads are 817 castings. In addition it appears a valve was dropped in #4 cylinder causing some damage to the head. Bores are .06 over and measure on the money and apparently have been bored and honed but the engine never started. I can see that these engines are different from what I am used to. I am unaware of anyone in my area familiar with these engines. I usually leave the engine building to the local engine builder but in this case I may have to be the expert. I need educating. Thinking of keeping this one for myself and would like 400 or so hp on pump gas and do occasionally have problems with the right foot getting heavy. I will be looking at the bottom end this week to see what I have there. What resources are available out there and where would I find another head if the damaged one has to be replaced? I am in Aiken SC . Maybe too much for an introduction but I have always had a soft spot for the early Impalas and would like to see this one returned to it former glory.
Thanks for allowing my introduction
Phil

If you’re looking for somebody to work on the motor, I would check with Jack Gibbs or Bill Mitchell if you need the numbers PM me

 

[Croshd]

Hello to all. I have been restoring cars as a hobby for years and always wanted a 409. The opportunity came up when a 62 SS four speed car came available with a 64 340 hp engine. The engine was something of a gamble knowing nothing about it. After pulling the heads I discovered a disturbing mix of parts. I have one piston that doesn’t match the rest and a mix of stainless and non stainless valves. The heads are 817 castings. In addition it appears a valve was dropped in #4 cylinder causing some damage to the head. Bores are .06 over and measure on the money and apparently have been bored and honed but the engine never started. I can see that these engines are different from what I am used to. I am unaware of anyone in my area familiar with these engines. I usually leave the engine building to the local engine builder but in this case I may have to be the expert. I need educating. Thinking of keeping this one for myself and would like 400 or so hp on pump gas and do occasionally have problems with the right foot getting heavy. I will be looking at the bottom end this week to see what I have there. What resources are available out there and where would I find another head if the damaged one has to be replaced? I am in Aiken SC . Maybe too much for an introduction but I have always had a soft spot for the early Impalas and would like to see this one returned to it former glory.
Thanks for allowing my introduction
Phil

 

[Don Jacks]

Welccome aboard Phill.What you have there is low compression truck pistons,they need to go for your 400 horse goals.I'm with Murphdog on the head,just go with 2.19 inttakes,bowl work,and stainless valves across the board .A mild cam in the 224 in..,230 ex at .050 range,an Edelbrock single 4 bbl intake,750 carb,use 10.5-1 car pistons,with your above mentioned head work and you'll be in the 410-430 hp range o pump 9 1-93 octane fuel.

 

[Jim Sullivan]

Welcome to this great site Phil.

 

[Impala62]

I was wondering about the pistons. I have included a picture. When I searched it tractor websites came up. Are pistons ordered by compression alone? Does the .06 overbore effect which pistons I buy? How/who do I purchase them from? Will cast or forged be needed for that hp goal? I am considering roller lifters to avoid any break in issues. I see Show Cars comes up often. Are they a preferred supplier? I’m afraid I’m nothing but questions at this point.
Thanks for the help
Phil

 

[Jeffrey Osstyn]

It comes down to what your final goal is. So, pick a compression ratio, then see what pistons are available off the shelf.
Compromise your choice with what's available. If it's too far off, custom pistons are another choice.
Forged are always best, but not required. If detonation is possible, higher compression makes it more of a factor, then forged may survive a few more knocks them cast pistons.
If cost is a factor, you may want to go with the options available for .060 over and work around them.

My last rebuild required .080 pistons, I had customs ones made, nothing off the shelf at the time.

Show Cars sells good stuff, and they have lots of experience with these engines. Call them for more opinions.

 

[Murphdog]

Well that "Conformatic" is something I don't ever recall seeing on an "automotive" piston, only tractor stuff. You learn something every day. That will be a cast piston. If need be you can make this 4.375, 4.380, 4.390 or somewheres in between.
Jeff

 

[Impala62]

Will finish disassembly today. Rod journals look great dispute some bearing scoring. Dead on .02 under. Apparently not clean when assembled. Thank goodness it was never cranked. There was also an amazing amount of trash in the oil pan. I don’t understand why anyone would assemble an engine this way. I originally considered cranking the motor as is to see how it ran. I will call Show Cars once I have all the numbers.
Thanks again

 

[blkblk63ss]

You will want to remove the splash cover on bottom of intake manifold and clean that out if intake you will use has that.